Has anyone made their own Tallow?

[Rick Markham]

'Spreading animal lard on your tools seems like a good way to end up with a rancid smelling tool box.'

Lard doesn't go rancid unless it is heated up when cooked. You buy it from the unrefrigerated shelf and stored at room temperature.

Stephen

Ya learn something everyday! I don't buy lard, so I have never looked. I cook in Bacon grease

My understanding is that any fat (hydrogenated or not, heated or not) are always subject to E-coli and other anaerobic bacteria, which in turn create hydrogen sulfide as a byproduct of their "anaerobic lifestyle" (smells like a bad rotten egg) Now if the Lard has absolutely zero water in it, it has been rendered completely, and if salt has been added, then yes the potential shelf life is next to forever. Once moisture is introduced anaerobic bacteria are free to thrive.

Cooking in oils (animal or vegetable) does cause "rancidity" without a doubt. The temperature of the smoke point gets lower and foods caramelize prematurely in rancid oil. Anyone that has gotten fries that are too brown on the outside and not quite done on the inside has experienced this. This isn't due to biological activity though, it is the oil becoming saturated with "other" hydrocarbons and organic material from being overused. When chefs speak of frying oil being "rancid" it is overused and the smoke point has diminished. For whatever reason that term has been used improperly traditionally in professional cooking. It is really that the oil has become exhausted, and doesn't cook cleanly. Now if you leave it sitting around at room temp, I don't doubt it will end up really rancid, with organic matter and moisture in the mix that's perfect for anaerobic bacteria.

[Tom Henderson2]

I suspect our fore fathers would have used paraffin if it had been available & affordable in their day...

-TH

[george wilson]

I can tell you that the old,dark,presumed tallow finish on antique tools will wash right off in plain water. Once I was using an old wooden brace out doors. It started to rain pretty hard,and I had to finish the job. The rain took all of the old patina right off,leaving the brace nice and pink! I think wax would not have been so easy to wash off.

You must realize that a lot of old time stuff was done with what was available back in the day. That may not mean it was the very best way to do something.

The English were always eating mutton. The U.S. soldiers in WWII England got real tired of eating mutton on a daily basis. Obviously they had tallow around.

Speaking of mutton,I was raised on 3 light houses when I was very young. On Lime kiln,in the Puget Sound,there was an abandoned sheep farm nearby,with sheep running wild with huge amounts of FILTHY wool hanging down all over them. I was about 5.

I remember my step father,who was always tight with money(and had little of it),killing those sheep with a .22 short(they were easy to kill). He'd gut them in the basement. The smell was terrible. We ate mutton all the time. I'll never eat another bite of it,either.

[Leigh Betsch]

The smell was terrible. We ate mutton all the time. I'll never eat another bite of it,either.

I agree. My grandparents would eat mutton once in awhile and make me eat it too. Never again. Makes liver taste good. Now antelope that's tasty.

[Brander Roullett]

P.S. Lard is an excellent substitute, readily available and can be stored at room temperature. I am lazy so I use lard.

I was wondering about that, thanks for confirming my theory on the lard. We used it a lot growing up for Mexican cooking, so I had a suspicion it might do as a substitute. Also, for bakers it comes in small "butter" sized cubes so it could be tried out cheaply.

I wanted to try out the tallow because I like to recreate traditional methods when I can to see how they were done.

I used Tallow at Roy's School (all his chopping boards for mortising practice had a small divot filled with Tallow) and it certainly made a difference to have it easily available and it certainly made a difference in sawing, and other actions. Just a tiny dab made a difference.

I wanted to make a small grease box for dabbing on my saw for dovetails, and other similar actions.

badger

[greg Forster]

Dixie Gun Works sells pure Mutton Tallow for $3.50 (appox. 12-16oz),
this would be a cheap, painless way to try out some.

It seems the English were rather fond of mutton tallow for their tools, but this (as stated above) was because it was readily available; this use really didn't follow to America.
The study of the English wool industry is fascinating- almost a precursor to the military-industrial complex.

I haven't read the magazine article... mutton tallow best for tools? Well my brother's doctor's butcher's son-in-law's cousin (twice removed) swears by it!
-best taken with a grain of salt

[John Powers]

My cardiologist is in favor of paste wax. He doesn't want to open me up again.

[Karl Wicklund]

The comments about tallow being too old-fashioned, too much trouble, seem surprising in this Neanderthal Haven.

[Stephen Shepherd]

The comments about tallow being too old-fashioned, too much trouble, seem surprising in this Neanderthal Haven.

Well said!

Someone asked a question about making their own tallow and everyone went 'modern'?

Stephen

[george wilson]

Just because someone 200 years ago had nothing ELSE to use doesn't make it THE BEST THING TO DO. Isn't that a reasonable statement? Working by hand doesn't necessarily mean you MUST use very old methods. I say that after being in a museum 39 years,and using the old ways,even making my own varnishes from old recipes(which are mostly BOGUS,by the way).

The issue here is preserving your tools,not preserving your tools with some ancient way of doing it.

[Stephen Shepherd]

Just because someone 200 years ago had nothing ELSE to use doesn't make it THE BEST THING TO DO. Isn't that a reasonable statement? Working by hand doesn't necessarily mean you MUST use very old methods. I say that after being in a museum 39 years,and using the old ways,even making my own varnishes from old recipes(which are mostly BOGUS,by the way).

The issue here is preserving your tools,not preserving your tools with some ancient way of doing it.

I think you miss the point of this forum which is called 'Neanderthal Haven' and people are interested in the old ways not the 'best' way as you say. The concept of using old tools in old way and old methods is what some of us do. And while you have a year on me, in the 38 years of working with wood traditionally, I don't even care about modern stuff, that is not what I do, I do history and there is no improving upon the past.

No one has improved on laid steel tools, hide glue and shellac, so why bother. To recreate a traditional woodworking experience as much of the old tools, materials and techniques are what people are interested in learning. Who cares about the modern stuff if that is not what you are doing.

I take umbrage with your off hand dismissal of old recipes for varnish.

Stephen

[Mike Siemsen]

The issue of using tallow becomes more important when you are demonstrating old methods. I also like to be able to use something that isn't a fossil fuel derivative. This stuff worked well for centuries, I say try it out before you dismiss it.
Mike

[george wilson]

Stephen,you obviously do not know me,or what I have done. Actually,I started making guitars in 1954. I became master instrument maker in Williamsburg in 1970. I spent so much time re creating old varnish formulas that my director gave me grief about it.

I can tell you that very many of the old formulas ARE BOGUS. I didn't say they all were. Too often things were only written down by intellectuals like Diderot,and the craftsmen who did not want to give away their secrets told him false things. I have found,and do use some old formulas for my varnish.

As steeped as I have been in the old ways,it is nonsense to say that the old steels are the best ever made,and the old ways are the infallibly best ways. Too often "the old ways" have been lost,and re-created later on false assumptions,anyway.

I have not dismissed tallow out of hand,Mike. I have tried out more old things than either of you by quite a bit. I was paid to do so full time for 39 years. Were you?

You two have some romantic notion that just because something is old,it MUST be the best. I work by hand,but have a great background in historic methods. I am able to cherry pick the best of both Worlds. By the way,animals also impact the enviornment. Haven't you heard about cattle making gas that is harmful for the environment? Also,do you eat raw meat,or do you cause damage to the air by cooking it?

Go to Neanderthal FAQ,look up my name,and see my work before you decide anything about me. George Wilson.

[Frank Drew]

I think you miss the point of this forum which is called 'Neanderthal Haven' and people are interested in the old ways not the 'best' way as you say. The concept of using old tools in old way and old methods is what some of us do.

Fair enough, Stephen; people are entitled to work in any manner they choose.

.... there is no improving upon the past....No one has improved on laid steel tools, hide glue and shellac, so why bother.

But this is something else entirely; do you mean these statements to be taken literally?

[george wilson]

I am as much involved in historic trade practices as anyone here. That is pretty well known,except by the newbies on this forum.

Romanticism aside,it is just plain false to assume that European steel from past centuries is superior to that which is made today.

Indeed,very little was known about chemistry before about 1830. Oxygen was only discovered in 1772. Then,it was called "fire air",or "depholigistated"(sp?) air.

The English had no idea why their iron wasn't very good(it had sulfur in it). They had to buy the good metal from Sweden.

They had no real idea how iron became steel,including in their manufacture such things as urine from a red haired boy,or from a wine drinking friar among a large assortment of things that had no benefit at all. Fortunately,their mixtures included carbon bearing materials like charcoal,leather scraps,etc..

The steel produced was of variable quality,including soft and hard areas,because it was made from case hardened rods that were welded together into "shear steel". Their best was doubled over,and re-welded into "double shear steel."

A watch maker,Benjamin Huntsman,frustrated with his springs breaking from the soft spots,figured out to melt the steel in crucibles with charcoal,making homogeneous carbon steel.

Even in the late 19th.C.,in England,tool steel was made the same way,indeed up to the 1940's. It was graded by hardening samples and breaking them open. A skilled operator would examine how fine the grain of the broken samples was,and sort the batches into Spindle steel(the lowest grade),Knife steel,and Razor steel.

At best,these were only approximations,and no sophisticated alloying materials were added for a very long time.

Alloy steels were naturally mined in some areas. Wolfram was tungsten steel mined in Germany. They had little idea how much was in the steel,though. There was a natural deposit of stainless steel,too. We have a fireplace set in Col. Williamsburg made from it. Some of the all metal Scottish pistols were made from it. these were rarities,though.

I was the master toolmaker from 1986 to retirement. I can't tell you how many antique,steel bitted chisels and other tools I had to repair. Tradesmen would buy them for their work,though museum policy was against using antiques. I did the same thing sometimes. The bits would come loose from faulty welds. Some chisels' edges would curl back because the chisel had never been hardened,or drawn way too soft. The users would bring them to me to fix.

The English used faulty steel in the Titanic,which lately has been shown to have caused the hull to tear open excessively. The very best materials and craftsmanship went into that most ambitious of all ships.

There was nothing magic about people in those days any more than there is today. Some of them were greatly skilled,others not so much. A violin maker in the Paris Guild was made to burn his violins because they were so bad(how'd he get into the guild?).

I am certainly NOT saying that good tools were not made. Just that a blanket statement about their quality cannot be made. I own about 350 carving tools and chisels,ranging from the 18th.C. to the present. I use them. They are not a collection I keep to look at.

Most of them are from the golden period of English tool making in the 19th.C.. There are definitely big variations in Addis tools from then,as well as others.

Shellac was known,and written about in the 17th.C. as being a poor finish. It was known to lose its shine,and,of course,cannot stand being gotten wet for long. It is the cheapest finish ever made. You can't use it for objects that will be handled a lot,because it will soften.

There are many types of animal glues. I use them,and they are good because for musical instruments,they can be taken apart,and they transmit vibrations well. Even in the 14th.C.,glues made from cheese were in use as the early casein based glues. They were more water resistant than hide glues,but not perfect yet. An ordinance had to be passed in the 1400's banning their use for exterior woodwork in France.

I'm not saying hide glue was not good,but that several other glues were in use,too. Albumen glue was used for gold leaf work on book bindings. Rabbit glue for gilding on woodwork. Wheat gluten glues for book binding. Fish bladder glues for wood,especially popular among Spanish guitar makers. Lots of glues were the best for certain applications. Even glues from resins were used for holding things like precious stones in place.

I suggest more study before making blanket statements based upon romanticism,and not real facts. Sorry to burst any bubbles. They need bursting,sometimes.