New woodworker. Help me sort it out...

[Michael Baum]

Hey everyone. This is my first post so go eaaasy.

I have been lurking here for awhile and searching my butt off on the topic of dust collection. The good, the bad and the ugly.

There is so much info, much of it conflicting.

Any amount of dust exposure is unacceptable? How do we all live? I like to try and read Bill Pentz's website, but there is so much info, complicated and full of government stats etc that I just can't get through it but I am trying.

Anyway, my shop is tiny. 8.5' x 17'. I am a new woodworker and I built it up to get a feel if I can do it well or enjoy it. I am interested in having good dust collection for me and my son's well being.

My plan right now is this:

• HF 2hp DC. Seems to be decent enough
• 6" ducting run across the floor. 3 drops. Under cabinets. All along one wall.
• All PVC, Wyes etc etc etc
• Pipe goes thru the wall to a room setup for the DC.
• Thien cyclone to start, ending in a Wynn Filter.
• Tubing length is about 14 feet on the main. Miter saw intake is 3 feet, rest are 8ft flex to the tools in the room.

Ok, it all looks good. Every tool I have is 2.5" outlets. How am I supposed to keep CFM up and dust removal effective?

Some posts go on and on that 4" is really great when done well. Why not go with 4"?

Some say it won't be enough. I need 20" pipe with a 400,000 CFM 12 stage system with full HEPA filtration at each stage so the air coming out the end is sterile without virus's and bacteria in it. Only way to be sure.

I am on a budget, so spending 2k or 3k on DC work is just not in the cards right now.

I plan on adding an airborne filter system, but I have very low ceiling (7ft 4 inches) so that will be a challenge.

Anyway, sorry for the rant for my first post. I really like the forum and have learned a lot with the search function.

Any opinions on my ideas?

Thanks all!

[Dan Hintz]

In a nutshell, you want to reduce restriction wherever possible. The best way to do this is use as large a pipe as feasible for as much of the run as feasible, within limits (increasing pipe diameter too much reduces suction capability). So, a 5" pipe as a main trunk is okay, a 6" pipe is probably ideal for most any home shop. Keeping twists and turns to a minimum is best, using two 45 degree angles instead of a single 90 degree elbow is best, etc.


Only neck down to the 4" or 2.5" port when you absolutely have to (within a couple of feet of the machine, for example), and use a smooth transition on all reduction/expansion ports (no flat-walled 6" to 2.5" port, you want more of a cone, if possible).

A quality 1.5-2HP system is probably good for you (some may suggest up to 5HP, and there's nothing wrong with some extra power, but it may be wasted power in a small shop that only uses one machine at a time). The HEPA filter, while used in the healthcare industry to keep down virus spreads, reduces (notice I didn't say "prevents" as HEPAs are not 100% efficient) very fine dust particles in the air... it's those very fine particles that can cause respiratory infections over the years that lead to life-long issues, even if you stop breathing it in some year down the road.

I'm going with a 2HP Penn state Industries DC1200B (it's quiet and powerful) topped with a Wynn nano filter (essentially a HEPA)... I will also modify it with an internal Thien filter to keep the Wynn filter as clean as possible. Total cost for the DC and nano filter is <$500. Piping can get expensive real fast. I received a 25' section of flexible tubing as part of the Stinger drawing a few weeks back, and that goes for about $100... add on blast gates, rigid piping, etc. and you can approach $1k pretty quickly for a large selection of piping and fittings. All totaled, you can put together a complete quality system for <$1,500 (if you shop around and choose wisely).

[Jim Sears]

I have a 2 HP Grizz DC. I used 4" schedule 30 PVC, and have two overhead runs the length of my shop (about 25' each). There are 5 drops, each using the 4" PVC. At the end of each drop, I have 4" flex running to each machine. I only open one gate at a time, and the dust collection is great. The only tool that I'm not staisfied with the dust collection on is the bandsaw. But I don't think that's the DC's fault. I used the 4" over the 6" duct work for two reasons. One was the cost of fitting and the other was conserve space as my ceiling height is not all that high. I know there are "nay sayers" on the 4" stuff, but for a small shop with fairly short runs, I think it works fine. At least it does for me.

[Cliff Holmes]

Every tool I have is 2.5" outlets. How am I supposed to keep CFM up and dust removal effective?

You need to balance the inflow at the tool. If you merely neck down at the tool, the DC will probably not be able to pull enough air through to keep up the necessary airspeed in the main duct. So you need to create additional inlets that pipe to other parts of the machine or just allow them to pull ambient air, which has the nice side effect of sucking in fine particles that are floating out of the machine.

Let's say you have a 6" duct. pi*rad^2 = 3.1415*3^2 = 28.27 square inches of duct. Your 2.5" inlet is 3.1415*1.25^2 = 4.9 si, so you have to make up 23.36 si. You could do that by splitting the line out with two additional 4" ducts. I'd recommend, however, that you merely run the 6" duct very near the machine and attach the 2.5" hose inside the 6" duct.

For an example of splitting the duct into multiple lines, see http://www.thewoodnerd.com/workshop/...n.html#bandsaw

[David Christopher]

Michael, with a shop that size, I would think about a good vacuum and a dust deputy, and a good air filtration unit..........it will take up less room and do a great job

[Rick Huelsbeck]

Michael, with a shop that size, I would think about a good vacuum and a dust deputy, and a good air filtration unit..........it will take up less room and do a great job

I agree with David on this one. Small footprint and has 2.5" from the source.

[Dave Gaul]

Holly Schmolly!!! Someone has a shop smaller than me!!! Sorry Mike, just had to!
My shop is 8' X 22'. Currently I have a good shopvac, and a HF 1hp DC on a Thein Seperator. This set up has been so-so. I still get lots of dust all over the place. Don't really have nearly enough suck for the table saw. It does good at the router table, and ok on the planer. I have a Jet DC-1900 3hp system on standby, just waiting to have the time to hook it up. I plan to connect it with a clyclone, run 6" main and 6" to all tools, split the table saw & router table to have 2 suction points (4" & 3" or 4" & 3") each... jointer & planer will get 6".

The DD & Air filter may work, depends on the equipment you'll be running... but my small shop seems to make big shop chips & dust!

[Dave Gaul]

Just re-read op... saw you are putting the dc in another building... can you vent your dc outside, tossing the need for a filter?

[Joe Leigh]

Hey Michael,

Sounds like you've made a good start. 1-1/2 - 2hp is plenty for a small shop using one tool at a time.
As for the air filtration Jet makes a small unit that you could mount up tight to the 7' 4" ceiling and still have headroom.

http://www.amazon.com/JET-AFS-400-Ai...0332589&sr=8-2

It's plenty big for your shop and is only 10-12" high.

[Michael Baum]

Thanks for the input guys!

There is a part of my slab that is about 4ft deep and 8 feet wide. I plan on enclosing that into 2 compartments. One for the DC and one for the compressor.

I could vent to atmosphere, but I think it would eventually cause a problem? With the Thien in place, I would be worried about too much wood dust building up. I do have neighbors.

I know the shop is small, but I think I can really learn and plan for the next shop if I sell the house. It sure beats trying my hand at woodworking inside my main shop dedicated to my car work.

I will post the build up of my shop in another thread. Built most of it myself (exception of the concrete slab).

I am concerned that I wouldn't have enough room for a dual intake at my tools. I will have to see how that would work.

Thanks!

[Phil Thien]

I could vent to atmosphere, but I think it would eventually cause a problem? With the Thien in place, I would be worried about too much wood dust building up. I do have neighbors.

Not a concern. At least a dozen people vent the output of one of my separators outside any nobody has reported buildup. Most can see no signs of dust or chips from the outlet.

[Michael Baum]

Ok, so I would just build the separator, forgo the bags and the filters and just dump to the atmosphere?

[Darius Ferlas]

When I was selecting a DC the noise was a big factor for me. My shop is 13 by 25. I had tried a SteelCity DC and at 87dB it just wasn't something I was going to turn on very often. Clicking around I ended up buying a PSI dust collector. I am very happy with the 2HP canister model I bought (65dB), but in the hind sight I'm pretty sure I would be as happy with their 1 1/2 HP. The prices are very decent too.

(not affiliation to PSI, just a happy customer. Except their economy hoses. Avoid like a plague)

[Dave Gaul]

Thanks for the input guys!

There is a part of my slab that is about 4ft deep and 8 feet wide. I plan on enclosing that into 2 compartments. One for the DC and one for the compressor.

I could vent to atmosphere, but I think it would eventually cause a problem? With the Thien in place, I would be worried about too much wood dust building up. I do have neighbors.

I know the shop is small, but I think I can really learn and plan for the next shop if I sell the house. It sure beats trying my hand at woodworking inside my main shop dedicated to my car work.

I will post the build up of my shop in another thread. Built most of it myself (exception of the concrete slab).

I am concerned that I wouldn't have enough room for a dual intake at my tools. I will have to see how that would work.

Thanks!

Great idea on isolating the noise makers!

If you build a proper seperator, you're neighbors will never know the difference!!

I'm with you on the small shop man. I know mine is small, but it's the best I've ever had at this point, and having a small shop forces me to make the best out of the space I have, which is a continuing work in progress!

[Phil Thien]

Ok, so I would just build the separator, forgo the bags and the filters and just dump to the atmosphere?

Yep, that is all there is to it.