Rant: Blade Sharpening vs Buying New

[Neil Brooks]

I tried ... for your area ... what I might try, for mine.

I Googled "sharpening NEAR White Plains, NY"

Results:

Central Mowers Inc.
475 Central Ave # 2, White Plains - (914) 761-3350

AND

http://www.ambrosicutlery.com/aboutus.shtml

Two possible businesses, in your area, who would KNOW where you can go, locally.

Worth two calls, at least

EDIT: Dynamic AND Forrest -- it appears -- are New York (State) based.

[Dick Thomas]

Worst case scenario, you could make a crazy wind chime???

[Victor Robinson]

It's the throwaway culture John, as you said. The economics will almost always encourage, reinforce, and propagate throwaway culture. It's usually the environmentally-conscious folks (or the folks who understand there must be a cost somewhere) that are bothered, but the worst part is if your decisions are first and foremost economically-based, as they are for most of us, you'll never be able to do the "right" thing.

[Jon van der Linden]

You're welcome to use whatever kind of wood you want on your land. I happen to like PT (and when I made a fence from non-treated wood the termites ate it). Also, just to clarify, I am not "burning out a blade on a few posts". That was merely an example of some of the work I do that doesn't warrant a costly blade, to illustrate why even going forward I might not always limit myself to expensive blades.

I also have no objection to paying people a fair price for their labor. I was not complaining about the price of the sharpening service. I was merely pointing out the dilema one faces when considering what to do with cheaper blades. I hate the throw-away culture we live in for various reasons, including the environmental effects.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

Some friends that know me well might tell you about one of my "termite killing frenzies" with me chasing after them when they come out to breed. There are plenty of them around here, and those of us with any sense know that there always will be.

Legend in California is that redwood is termite proof or some such thing. I've seen them eat redwood, so I know that's not quite correct. They might not go after old growth heartwood, but the stuff that's available now is a different story. The thing is, most woods once they get some amount of rot going will be a target for insects or beetles.

The basic thing with fence posts is to use a wood that isn't prone to rot and weathers well, like cedar. Using several inches of gravel under the post as well as around it helps drainage a lot and keeps the post from rotting. A concrete cap locks it in place, protects it at ground level and directs water away. Not anything terribly complicated, but I see a lot of contractors mess this up and actually cause problems.

Then you have the people down the street that just replaced their fence which rotted away prematurely because their sprinkler system gives it a good soak every morning. A daily soaking/drying cycle is definitely not good for wood. The contractor that installed the new fence did a horrible job on setting the posts and it will follow the route of the first fence in no time at all.

I agree that you probably won't find me using the sawblade I've reserved for joints or veneer on wood that might have dirt embedded in it, but I probably wouldn't buy a special blade for it either. In fact it would never occur to me, possibly because there aren't cheap blades that will fit my saws. I think my average blade price is about $150, but they don't sell those kinds of blades at home depot either, so my options are more limited than yours.

So perhaps the reason for your recycling/reuse dilemma is really just that you didn't spend enough to be free of it in the first place!

Seriously though, when faced with the question of buying something really really cheap that has other alternatives, I always have to ask myself "who made this and how were they paid for their work?" If the answer is that they weren't paid enough to live at what I consider a minimum standard, then I don't buy the product. I don't like having to consider these kinds of questions when I'm shopping, but I do ask them.

[Nancy Laird]

John Mark, I'm gonna jump in here and suggest that you call some of the cabinet shops or custom carpentry shops, call cabinetmakers, call finish carpenters, and find out who they trust to sharpen their blades...those professionals will know the best sharpeners around and you can them check them out.

As far as buying cheap blades, yes, we are a throwaway society and cheap blades will forever be with us. However, if you want to build decent furniture or make square cabinets, you'll buy a GOOD/expensive blade so it cuts your lumber correctly. You'll throw away money if you use a cheap blade on Brazilian cherry!!

[John Mark Lane]

John Mark, I'm gonna jump in here and suggest that you call some of the cabinet shops or custom carpentry shops, call cabinetmakers, call finish carpenters, and find out who they trust to sharpen their blades...those professionals will know the best sharpeners around and you can them check them out.

Now that's a darn good idea. Why didn't I think of that? It will also give me a good excuse to stop in to a shop I've heard about here that's making some really cool stuff. Thanks!

As far as buying cheap blades, yes, we are a throwaway society and cheap blades will forever be with us. However, if you want to build decent furniture or make square cabinets, you'll buy a GOOD/expensive blade so it cuts your lumber correctly. You'll throw away money if you use a cheap blade on Brazilian cherry!!

Yes, yes, I know. I have said more than once that as between spending more on the saw or spending more on the blade, you may as well opt for the latter. I've got a Craftsman 7 1/4 inch CSMS that I bought because I like it's diminutive size, and I'm getting some blades for it that cost as much as the saw. Good advice! Thanks.

Mark

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Locally in this pretty small town there is a lumberyard that has dealings with a blade sharpening service. Write your name on the blade with a Sharpie and leave it with the yard. The blade service comes around every so often and picks up ones to be sharpened and leaves resharpened blades, so there's no shipping involved.

As far as finding a service, contact people who have blades sharpened and find out who they use. This can be cabinet shops, construction companies, renovators/remodlers, etc. Also check with people who deal with wood - lumberyards, home improvment centers, etc.

As far as finding a good sharpening service you just have to talk to people who have dealt with some to find one who does a good job and for a reasonable price. A good sharpening service can give you a blade that's better than when it came from the store. We are using some Freud thin kerf blades that cost about half the purchase price to sharpen and work very well. The cheapest blades are really not worth having done.

[John Mark Lane]

I tried ... for your area ... what I might try, for mine.

I Googled "sharpening NEAR White Plains, NY"

Results:

Central Mowers Inc.
475 Central Ave # 2, White Plains - (914) 761-3350

AND

http://www.ambrosicutlery.com/aboutus.shtml

Two possible businesses, in your area, who would KNOW where you can go, locally.

Worth two calls, at least

EDIT: Dynamic AND Forrest -- it appears -- are New York (State) based.

Thanks, Neil, I will check those. But I have a feeling a lawn mower company is not likely to be much at sharpening saw blades (there is a huge culture of lawn mowing services around here, I suspect they service that). And yes, there are plenty of places that sharpen cutlery.

As for Forrest, they are actually in New Jersey. I had not been aware of Dynamic, but I checked -- they're in Buffalo. It's a long ways from White Plains to Buffalo. NY is a big state. Still, I appreciate any suggestions I can get! And at least Dynamic is less expensive than Forrest, so I may use them.

[Neil Brooks]

You're right about Forrest being in NJ.

My thought about the mower (and cutlery) sharpening people is that ... they may simply KNOW who can do a nice job on saw blades, in much the way that a local sawyer or furniture shop might.

I'm assuming that they may all be a loosely affiliated "fraternity," and each knows the other....

Good luck !

[scott spencer]

The new "Avanti" line at HD is junk...nothing close to the well regarded former Freud Avanti series other than the logo (buyer beware with those...they are not Freud blades). Cheaply made blades like the HD Avanti line, Workforce, Ryobi, Skil, Oldham contractor serires, DeWalt construction series, Vermont American, Irwin Classic and Marathon, etc. aren't worth the asking price IMO...it's false economy at $15-$20 per blade. If that's the quality level that suits your needs, buy the $5 blades from HF, Big Lots, Homier sales, etc., then toss them.

A better option IMO....Good blades go on sale at clearance prices fairly often...stock up when these opportunities come, so the blades are at least worth the cost of resharpening. IE: The Delta Industrial 35-7657 (formerly the DeWalt DW7657) full kerf 10" 40T ATB general purpose blade has been on sale for $18 plus shipping from Cripe Distribution on Ebay. The real Freud TK/Avanti line has been clearanced by Rockler, Amazon, and others in recent months for a fraction of the normal retail price. 3-4 years ago Irwin discontinued their very good "Woodworker" series that was made in Germany by Leitz...those blades were clearanced down into the $10-$15 range for quite a while. Keep your eyes peeled for the real deals, or just buy a couple of good quality blades with thick carbide that are worth resharpening.

[John Mark Lane]

The new "Avanti" line at HD is junk...nothing close to the well regarded former Freud Avanti series other than the logo (buyer beware with those...they are not Freud blades). Cheaply made blades like the HD Avanti line, Workforce, Ryobi, Skil, Vermont American, Irwin Classic and Marathon, etc. aren't worth the asking price IMO...it's false economy at $15-$20 per blade. If that's the quality level that suits your needs, buy the $5 blades from HF, Big Lots, Homier sales, etc., then toss them.

Good blades go on sale at clearance prices fairly often...stock up when these opportunities come, so the blades are at least worth the cost of resharpening. IE: The Delta Industrial 35-7657 (formerly the DeWalt DW7657) full kerf 10" 40T ATB general purpose blade has been on sale for $18 plus shipping from Cripe Distribution on Ebay. The real Freud TK/Avanti line has been clearanced by Rockler, Amazon, and others in recent months for a fraction of the normal retail price. 3-4 years ago Irwin discontinued their very good "Woodworker" series that was made in Germany by Leitz...those blades were clearanced down into the $10-$15 range for quite a while. Keep your eyes peeled for the real deals, or just buy a couple of good quality blades with thick carbide that are worth resharpening.

Scott -- how do you tell the difference (online or otherwise) between the Avanti junk and the good ones?

For the record (again), I do appreciate quality blades and I don't generally expect to be buying much junk (and I absolutely despise Home Depot... I won't even buy Dewalt because of the Home Depot connection). But I still puzzle over the unfortunate circumstance that probably 95% of the saw blades sold today are "not worth the cost of resharpening". Back in the day... (ha ha), I always had my blades resharpened, and it was a regular stop on my circuit to swing by the sharpener's shop. No more.

[Don Jarvie]

Think of it this way, is the cost of the sharpening the blade cheaper than getting a new one? If the answer is yes then sharpen, if not get a new one.

It's worth buying a good quality blade for your TS and any other tool you use on a daily basis. It will be well worth paying to sharpen them..

I have a WWII on my TS and a Freud on my RAS. I wanted to buy a Forrest Chopmaster but couldn't justify the 100 bucks. The Freud was a bit cheaper.

I just had the WWII sharpened and it cost~25 bucks and I had it back in 4 days.

[scott spencer]

Scott -- how do you tell the difference (online or otherwise) between the Avanti junk and the good ones?

The easy way to tell is to look for the name...the "good" Freud Avanti line that's been discontinued says "Freud" on the blade. The imitation junk Avanti line just says "Avanti" or "Avanti Pro".... no "Freud". The Freud line was also made in Italy, the imitation Avanti line is made in China...there are some good blades made in China, but the Avanti line is not among them. Oshlun, Tenyru Rapid Cut series, and Craftex Blue Tornado line are just some examples of very good value lines that happen to be made in China.

The harder way to tell junk blades in general is to look at the teeth, the brazing, the way the slots are cut, the overall appearance, etc. There's no guarantee that small teeth, sloppy brazing, and stamped expansion slots won't cut well, but it's a clue that "cheap" was the manufacturer's intention.

[Larry Frank]

I found this thread interesting as I was just looking at my sawblades last night and separating out a couple that need to be sharpened. I also made a list of blades for my shop insurance inventory list and it was surprising what they are all worth.
I believe that using the lower cost blades for pressure treated and construction type work is great. When they are no longer sharp, they get thrown away or actually if you put them in your recycling they will become a new piece of steel and I see nothing wrong with that.

[Bruce Wrenn]

As for Forrest, they are actually in New Jersey. I had not been aware of Dynamic, but I checked -- they're in Buffalo. It's a long ways from White Plains to Buffalo. NY is a big state.

Dynamic is as close as your front door. Go to USP site and request a "flat rate box" which postman will drop off at your house. go online and print postage, or attach a check to box for postage (less than ten bucks), then request a pick up. You can put up to 55 pounds in your box, which for most is a lifetime supply of blades. Next go to Cripe Distributing's web site and order you some Delta 35-7657 blades for $17 each. Shipping is $10 the first blade and only slightly more for several. As for distance to sharpening place, there are two good sharpeners in my county, just on the other side. Each round trip takes about two and one half hours, times two, for a total of five hours of lost production time. Makes that flat rate box real cheap. My blades go to Dynamic. Only once did I let Forrest rip me off on costs of sharpening.