Hock Iron ?

[Rob Young]

Some time back I bought a Hock iron for my #4. While it works very well and holds a good edge, it took forever to get the back flat. This weekend I bought a Hock iron for my 60 1/2. I wanted to try the IBC but my local Woodcraft was out of stock. Anyway I now have no less than 3 hours in it trying to get the back flat. There is about a 3/16" triangle shaped area just opposite the cutting edge in one corner that still is visibly not changing. I started with 180 grit paper on a granite surface plate after seeing that my 250 King waterstone wasn't going to do the job. I thought the 180 did the trick untill I went back to the 250 and then 1,000 stones.
Is this normal for an expensive blade or did I just get 2 bad ones?
Thanks,
Bob Warfield

Have you contacted Ron Hock about this? If there really is a problem I'm sure he would want to know. He occasionally pops up here on SMC so maybe he will happen along shortly.

[Ron Hock]

Sometimes a blade we sell isn't flat and we'll swap it for another without quibble. Try as we may, our QC isn't always perfect, but our guarantee is.

As to the OP's problem, yes, I think perhaps you've received two that needed more work than most. Judging from the very few blades we have to replace, I have to assume this is the case -- it sound as if your technique is pretty good. Just send it back and we'll replace it if you wish. An email form lives here, and please feel free to call: (888) 282-5233.

I do often recommend the ruler trick because of the time it saves. I know it is controversial and not for everyone. Here's my take on it.

[Bob Warfield]

Thanks to everyone for the responses. The jig sounds like a good idea. I'm going to look into it. When I flattened the #4 blade I used double sided tape with a small block of wood. I don't know why I didn't do it with this one. Just before I got disgusted and quit last night I noticed blood on the side of my palm.
Anyway thanks to Ron Hock for his reply. I will give him a call tomorrow.
Thanks,
Bob Warfield

[David Weaver]

Attached are the pictures of the dirty nasty jig. Less than 10 minutes.

Works perfectly.

[Bob Warfield]

Thanks David. That looks like a good idea. The block of wood I used with the double sided tape also worked very well but the tape was "Turners Tape" and was a bear to get apart!
Thanks,
Bob Warfield

[David Weaver]

I did the double sided tape before, too. It works well, but it takes a little more screwing around and can be really hard to get apart. It would always slide a little on me, too.

Drill the holes the same size as the bolts and keep a cordless drill socket that fits the bolts and nuts around and it's really easy to keep the irons in this.

I have the commercial version for japanese plane irons (i don't know if I said that already) - it doesn't work with western irons, but it does work with chisels. A similar device could be made like this cheap one without the bolts but with some hose clamp straps and a wedge (it works by wedging the iron against a steel strap since there's no slot).

The only thing you have to be careful about with these is not getting rammy and tipping it and letting the edge dub a little. It doesn't take long to feel what the stone is telling you about grip and stiction, though, and avoid that. The ability to really lean into an iron is well worth any hassle, including the 10 minutes it takes to hack handles out of a 2x4 and scrounge up some bolts, washers and nuts.

[Ken Werner]

Thanks for clarifying David. Looks like a good idea.

[Bob Warfield]

I sent the 60 1/2 blade back to Mr. Hock and got a replacement today in the mail. I really didn't think I would get it untill the end of the week. Anyway this one is flat! I'm happy again! Now I need /want new irons for both my #7 & #8. Can't wait for WIA!
Thank You to Mr. Ron Hock
Bob Warfield

[Patrick Tipton]

I don't post much, but read this forum regularly. I just wanted to applaud Mr. Hock for great customer service. That is the way companies are supposed to treat their customers. I have two Hock 151 spokeshave blades and they are great. Great product and great company. Keep up the good work!

Regards, Patrick

[lowell holmes]

I have three Hock irons on my three Bedrocks. I've had them for six years and they have been good. They were flat from the get-go.

[Steve Branam]

David, I definitely want to try this out on some old pitted blades. Do you only do this on a kanaban, or on stones? What kind of stones? This seems like you'd be putting a lot of pressure on it, turning a waterstone to mush in minutes! Do you start with heavy pressure for coarse work, then lighten up at finer grits, or use the same pressure for all?

[David Weaver]

Kanaban for the rough grit, and stones after that.

I leave irons in the holder until I've worked the back all the way through the grits. Not as much pressure on the stones as on the kanaban, but they are not doing the same amount of work as the stones.

All of the stones and the kanaban are mounted with epoxy (stones) or screws (kanaban) to a substrate piece of wood that can take some of the brutn.

The stones do wear faster than they would if you were using finger pressure, but there is still a large time savings. flattening the stones after finishing (i usually use 3 - 1000,5000 and 15000 shapton professional) doesn't really take more than a minute or so with a diamond hone.

I think the shapton stones would crack (just guessing) if I didn't have them on a hard substrate (i used kingwood scraps with rubber feet, which don't flex much at all).

Just trust your hands and feel when you're working. If you feel like you're pushing too hard for a finish stone and in danger of rolling the iron and scuffing the surface of the stone, then you probably are. If all is going smoothly, then...well...it is.

You can do the same thing with kings if you have a way to keep them sequestered and supported underneath. The kanna video I saw that triggered the desire to find an easy way lap out pitting and flatten showed a blacksmith doing the honing on what looked like a very large king stone (similar material to a king red 800 or 1000 stone). Just use as much of the surface as you can and flip the stone to use the other side after you've done a good bit.

[Steve Branam]

I remembered seeing something about this in Odate's book. He uses a length of wood that's about the width of the iron and twice times as long as a backer block, and just holds it together with one hand, the other hand on the other end of the wood, putting pressure on the edge.

I made a quick little MDF sandpaper block with 80-grit PSA on one side and 120 on the other for the coarse grinding, and tried that method with an old single iron from a wooden plane, using heavy pressure. It worked quite well. The iron slipped around a little bit, but not enough to be a problem. I went from the sandpaper to a hard Arkansas, kind of a big skip, and then to an 8000 waterstone, easing up the pressure on the stones so I didn't damage them.

This gave the ugly old iron a nice polish in less than 10 minutes, would have taken at least 30 using just finger pressure. It still has an ugly area in the middle of the polish, but near the edge is fine.