Robland or Felder Combo or stick with current?

[Josh Brouse]

OK,

I currently have (that can be replaced with a Combo machine):

Powermatic 66 w/ 52" rip cap.
powermatic 15" plainer.
Grizzly 12" jointer.
Jointeck router table.
Bench top mortise machine (not on the felder).

I also have:

Jet 18" band saw.
Dewalt 12" SCMS.
Jet 1200cfm can dust collector (haven't run the lines pretty at all right now).
Assembly table 3x6 (hold mortiser, ridged spindle/belt sander & 10" drill press on top). Under is storage for tools in cases.
Washer and dryer is also in there.

I have my shop in my 2 car garage (tight 2 car garage) so I'm seriously considering a combo for space.

I can get a Robland X31 for $1500 or a Felder 741S Professional for $9000obo (up for sale near me).

The Robland is the cheaper of the two in quality by far from what I have read. That said it is also the smaller. The felder is (from that I have gleamed) the creme of the crop of machines. But what I see is a much larger footprint as well.

Is the Robland x31 worth going with?
Is it going to be able to perform as well as or better then my current setup?
Would you go with the Felder for the quality (and pay for it)?

Any other thoughts that I haven't came up with would be very helpful.

Thanks
Josh

[Steve Rowe]

I had a 2004 Felder 741SP combo and it is a very nice and high quality machine. The model I had, is newer than the one you are looking at. I did it to go from separates similar to what you describe in an effort to recover shop space. I did recover shop space but at the expense of some combo inconvenience.

I have since sold the combo and went back to separates but this time with a slider (saw only), J/P combo and separate shaper. The combo thing just didn't fit the way I like to work. My advice on this is to thoroughly think through the way you work and determine first if the combo is the right choice for you.

Between the two machines you have available, the Felder would be the premier choice unless cost is the most important issue to you. It is hard to tell about the value of the two machines unseen. It depends on age, options, accessories and condition. If it is in very good condition and well endowed with accessories, the $9K price tag seems fair given there are several of these machines (of various vintages) listed on the Felder Owners Group with asking prices between $10,950 and $12K.

I would avoid the Robland. Performance of the Felder is IMHO better than what you currently have assuming that it is correctly adjusted. After having a slider, there is no going back for me.

[Bob Falk]

and it is the best planer I have, and I have three others (Woodmaster, Dewalt, Ryobi). It's the only one that doesn't snipe. I haven't used the X31 but my Jointer/planer combo is essentially what's on the X31....unless you want to spend the big bucks, the Robland, IMHO, is excellent. bob

[Dave Avery]

It depends on your budget. Do you need new equipment....... probably not. Is it going to measureably increase your quality of work or speed...... probably not. Will it make you happier.... only you can answer.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a Hammer B3 Winner saw/shaper and a Hammer A3-31 jointer/planer.

The jointer/planer on the Felder is an upgrade from your present jointer and planer. Quick change knives, zero snipe, ability to add table extensions for large jobs, unclip them for storage or going back to standard sized jobs.

The Felder sliding saw is in a different universe from a cabinet saw, there's a learning curve however you can

- straight line rip rough lumber

- square up plywood sheets

- rip with the rip fence, which is a 3 position fence, high, low and adjustable front to back for maximum accuracy and safety

The Felder shaper, I have a shaper, don't have, want or need a router table. Once you've used a shaper you'll wonder why you didn't get one earlier.

Check whether the Felder is configured dado use, it's a factory option on the machine.

Combo machines do take some getting used to, however the Felder is a superb machine, far higher quality and accuracy than your present machines, as well as more versatile.

Watch the video below

http://www.feldergroupusa.com/us-us/...osgruppen_id=0

Regards, Rod.

[Doug Shepard]

I made the switch to a Hammer A3-31 a while ago and sold my 6" PM54 jointer and DW733 planer. I got a boost in jointer capability but the space savings were probably a wash. In your case, you dont get any size capability increase (unless you go for a 16" combo). If you've got the current arsenal sucessfully shoe-horned in there I think I'd stay with the separate machine setup.

[Jeff Mackay]

I have a Robland X31. It's a good machine for someone with limited space. I haven't used a Felder or Hammer, but I understand their quality (and cost) is higher level than Robland's.

As far as the Robland is concerned, here's what I think are the positives:

- Three 3HP motors powering the saw, jointer/planer, and shaper. The mortiser also uses the jointer/planer motor.
- Compact footprint
- Reasonably good sliding table, but it is not a sliding table saw.
- Excellent mortiser, but an inferior chuck.
- Good customer support. This is actually a relatively recent development.

Overall, I've been satisfied with the machine. But there are some negatives:

- Setup time/hassle. For me, the biggest hassle was moving between the table saw and jointer. I often do the two operations sequentially. With a combination machine, it's much more efficient to do things in batches: face joint everything, edge joint everything, plane everything, rip everything to final width. Moving the fence and tables is simply a hassle and makes repeatability a challenge.
- Single point(s) of failure. If something goes wrong with the switch or capacitors, you're out of commission.
- Tendency to lose alignment over time. Some folks experience this, others don't. I've moved the machine three times, and have had to spend significant time realigning it each time.

Many (although not all) of the negatives will apply to any five-function combination machine. If you were "upgrading" from a contractor saw, a 6" jointer, a router table, and a lunchbox planer (as I did when I bought the machine), this would be an upgrade to everything and probably a good choice--as long as you were willing to accept the trade-offs that a smaller footprint would require.

But an X31 wouldn't really be an upgrade to all of the equipment you listed. It might be an acceptable substitute for the tablesaw and jointer, probably not an acceptable substitute for the planer (it's smaller), but you would gain a shaper and a better mortiser.

With the Felder, you'd get a better substitute for your jointer and tablesaw, and a shaper. (Not sure if it includes a mortiser). But you'll still have to deal with a smaller planer.

For what it's worth, I was limited on space in my last workshop, so the X31 made a lot of sense. Now that I've moved into a bigger shop, I'm slowly but surely buying separate machines and will eventually sell the X31. I'd rather have dedicated tools than more space. If I were you, I'd probably stick with the dedicated machines--unless you're running into serious trouble making the things you want to make because of limited space. Or you could think about switching to separate jointer/planer and tablesaw/shaper combos.

Jeff

[Van Huskey]

Thats a big jump in price, replacing what you have I would go with the Felder IF money permits but it is a HUGE jump. (BTW Felder isn't even the creme of the crop BUT the creme is even MORE expensive). The Felder is great stuff.

One other note is about replacing the router table, unless the Felder has a high speed router spindle it won't replace a router table just augment it. Although there is some overlap between a router table and a shaper they don't cover each other fully.

[Curt Harms]

I have a Jet J/P combo that I'm well pleased with. A saw/shaper makes sense, how often do you use saw-shaper-saw-shaper. Not that often, I'd think. Not sure about the 5 in 1 unless space were really tight.

[ian maybury]

I've just gone for Hammer separates from a Robland combo, in my case the one with the narrower 10in planer.

I've no experience of the Hammer stuff yet as my shop is still ripped out, but hear consistently good things. The planers especially seem to be very good, and the A3 410 16in model was a very good deal when i bought it here last year. (in the US too i think)

The Robland combo is a very solid machine too in my experience, but is very definitely built down to a price and a little crude in places - it has a strong chassis and tables though. The planer would hold consistent settings over a long run of timber, and produced excellent finishes. The saw is fine too, if a little limited at 3hp.

The sliding table is very hard to get aligned if needed (and it probably will - it really needs some jigs made, as it doesn't have jacking screws or the like), the rip fence on mine was a short and flimsy Euro style lightweight aluminium extrusion and a joke.

Infeed and outfeed tables are a bit of issue if you are trying to handle sheet - the machine table is itself quite small and requires removal of the planer fence to access what room there is. The trouble is that the projection of the planer table doesn't lend itself to easily hooking up tables, and means that the rip fence guide bar is in multiple pieces and short.

This latter was the primary reason why i sold mine on - i was shaping up to do some major fence, sliding table alignment and extension and infeed outfeed table upgrading, but realised in the end that i was trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. (hope it translates)

I've no experience of it, but it seems to me that the spindle/saw combo Hammer and separate planer that Rob has is a very good compromise position if you can afford just a little more space than a 4machine combo.

ian

[Mike Wilkins]

Nothing wrong with your current stable of machinery, but I can understand the space considerations. If you are set on a combo and you can swing the monetary issues, the Felder would be the best bet, even though I have 2 Laguna machines in my shop. The Robland is a fine entry-level machine from what I can determine, and the space savings would be huge.
Are your machines on wheels/mobile? This option might be worth a look.
Good luck and watch those fingers.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a Jet J/P combo that I'm well pleased with. A saw/shaper makes sense, how often do you use saw-shaper-saw-shaper. Not that often, I'd think. Not sure about the 5 in 1 unless space were really tight.

Actually Curt, the 5 in 1 is more difficult in a small shop, the saw/shaper and jointer/planer are much easier to fit into a tight place. (I have a small shop in the basement of a townhouse).

Regards, Rod.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

For $1500, try it out.

My shop is a converted two car garage.
5in1 Combo works perfect for me.

[Paul Johnstone]

OK,

I currently have (that can be replaced with a Combo machine):

Powermatic 66 w/ 52" rip cap.
powermatic 15" plainer.
Grizzly 12" jointer.
Jointeck router table.
Bench top mortise machine (not on the felder).

I also have:

Jet 18" band saw.
Dewalt 12" SCMS.
Jet 1200cfm can dust collector (haven't run the lines pretty at all right now).
Assembly table 3x6 (hold mortiser, ridged spindle/belt sander & 10" drill press on top). Under is storage for tools in cases.
Washer and dryer is also in there.

I have my shop in my 2 car garage (tight 2 car garage) so I'm seriously considering a combo for space.

I have roughly the same amount of space as you have, but in a basement.
I have simliar tools and challenges. I did the mobile bases, but I am about to reorganize the shop again to minimize rolling around..
To make a long story short, I am going to have the tablesaw, jointer and planer in fixed locations (but movable if need be).. To get that space, the bandsaw was pushed into a corner.. It's usable where it is for short pieces. Also, I had a huge Norm-style router table with a jointech fence.
That is getting removed. I am going to redo it, so that the router table is like a drawer that can be slid in and out as needed (I bought some 500 lbs slides and folding legs to help support it). That wins back some floor space.

Just my opinion, but I'd rather have the inconvience of rolling tools around than to deal with a combo machine.. It's really nice to be able to use the jointer and table saw at the same time.

Just saying, you have some really nice stuff there.. I think you'd miss it if you went to a combo system. Get rid of the washer/dryer instead.

[Mike Ruggeri]

About 5 months ago I made the change from individual machines to a 5 in 1 combo. My shop is just a bit more than 1/2 of a standard size 2 car garage. For me, the combo makes sense and I really wanted a sliding table saw and something with easy to change blades in the jointer/planer. I previously had a 10" cabinet saw, 15" planer, 16" jointer, and 3hp shaper and now I have one unit that has a high quality 12" jointer and planer (with easy changing Tersa blades), 12" sliding table saw, shaper (with 3/4" and 1 1/4" spindles) and a slot mortiser. At first I questioned if I made the right decision to change to the combo but having used it for 5 months now I don't have regrets.

My combo is on Zambus casters which make moving it around really easy in a pretty tight space. As I use the table saw 80% of the time, I have the unit positioned so the jointer/planer is against the wall which allows for the best use of the space. If I want to joint something, I just push it more toward the center of the shop which literally can be done in lless than 2 minutes. The sliding table does take up a fair amount of space but I also have found that to not be a problem (once I positioned my workbench, drill press, lathe and bandsaw in the right place). For me, I just had to plan my work flow a bit better so change over between functions is not a big issue. Also, I am just do this for a hobby so and extra minute or two here and there is really no big deal.

I did keep my router table and really like having it as I use it often (and it also serves other functions like an outfeed table, spot to set my mitre saw, etc..).

Felder is a good quality machine. Mine is a Minimax but would have went with a Felder if I found one for a reasonable price (I narrowed my search down to these two brands and happen to find a nice used MM).

Good luck.

Mike