Zinsser BIN thru HVLP not sticking?

[Bill Bixby]

I'm refinishing new, prefab, painted kitchen cabinets. My plan is to scuff the existing coat with 220 grit, prime with Zinsser BIN, then two coats of Glidden Ultra Hide High gloss. I have small children so durability is most important.

I noticed that in some places the Zinsser is easily scratching off with a fingernail. Did I apply it too thickly on the first pass or not scuff the existing finish enough?

on side note, anyone have a good starting point as far as how much to thin the oil paint so I can spray it? I added a pint of Penetrol and the viscosity does not appear to have changed much.

[Howard Acheson]

The first question is what is the existing finish? Some finishes used by manufacturers are not compatable with other finishes. Even with scuff sanding, adhesion may still be a problem.

Second, as I recall, Penetrol is intended for exterior work, not interior applications. It is not a thinner, nor does it act like one.

Finally, kitchen cabinets are always covered in gunk. Cooking oils, high dampness, all sorts of cleaning chemicals and dirty, greasy fingers are serious contaminates and impediments to adhesion. Preparation needs to include aggressive chemical cleaning with mineral spirits and then washing with a strong cleaner like TSP.

[Bill Bixby]

Some googling leads me to believe I can thin the topcoat with MS as much as 50% for spraying...

I have no clue what they are finished in...feels very hard like plastic. Its definitely paint though, not a laminate.

They are brand new so I dont have any gunk to worry about.

Since it adhered fine in some places and not others, I assumed it was my application technique (or lack thereof)

[Jim Becker]

Don't assume that you don't have to clean off any oils, waxes, etc., just because they are new. There still could be surface contamination from the manufacturing process. And Howie is correct that there are some factory finishes used today, especially for kitchen cabinets, that are tough to cover with a new finish and even tougher to strip.

[Bill Bixby]

I just sanded them down as best I could and the Zinsser went on fine. Waiting for the gloss coat to dry now. I didnt realize that MS prolonged the drying time so much...I guess I should have used naptha to thin.
By the way Jim, I'm using a conversion gun from GleemPaint as recommended by your blog. Its working great!

[Joe Chritz]

If you are thinning the BIN it isn't an oil it is an alcohol base pigmented shellac finish of sorts.

I have never had any adhesion problems but would likely think it is either not fully dry or there is contamination from the surface.

I usually spray it straight from the can without any trouble with a gravity feed conversion gun. Even with the small tip it sprays on very good. I use it under nearly all painted projects.

Joe

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> If you are thinning the BIN it isn't an oil it is an alcohol base pigmented shellac finish of sorts.

Excellent point Joe, I didn't catch that. BIN should not be thinned with mineral spirits. It's a shellac based product and the thinner is alcohol. In fact, small amounts of mineral spirits can be used as a retarder to slow up the drying of shellac. Larger amounts will damage the BIN and it may never dry properly and probably will lead to adherence problems.

If the BIN was thinned with mineral spirits, the finish should be stipped witha chemical stripper and the finishing process started over.

[Bill Bixby]

the BIN was straight from the can...I finally got it to adhere properly, but I'm new to spraying so I adjusted the settings continuously trying to figure it out so I'm not sure what the problem was. . My best guess is that there was too much paint coming out at first and it was not drying all the way through.

I may have done the same thing on the finish coat which was the reason it took 10 hours to dry on a warm day. I was getting a light orange peel that I couldn't fix which I believe is another sign of too much paint not enough air.