US manufactured woodworking machines

[Ronald Blue]

Two American made extension cords are Safe-T-Lite and Coleman. Unless I am misinformed.

[Kevin W Johnson]

Political post that is factually incorrect.

Really? So buying American made goods doesn't employ Americans?

[Steve Griffin]

My machines are a mix of all the aforementioned, what is important is what comes off of them is made here in the good ole USA ;-)

3 cheers for this post.

THanks to affordable machinery, I was able to start my business on a shoestring and have been making stuff for 13 years which is "made in america".

If the "buy in america" only fanatics had their way, I doubt I could have pulled it off.

[Alan Schaffter]

Really? So buying American made goods doesn't employ Americans?

My statement applied to a specific post.

As to this entire thread, it has avoided any discussion of the "global economy." Its not just "Us" and "them" anymore. Many, many companies are multi-national. Many "foreign" companies are wholly or partially owned by US banks, investors, companies, etc. and many "US companies" are partially or wholly foreign owned. This topic is much more complex than touched on here by sound bites and random statistics.

[John Coloccia]

3 cheers for this post.

THanks to affordable machinery, I was able to start my business on a shoestring and have been making stuff for 13 years which is "made in america".

If the "buy in america" only fanatics had their way, I doubt I could have pulled it off.

I see. "Fanatics" who like to support local businesses somehow impact your ability to source your shop from China, Madagascar or anywhere else you want? Please don't say anyone is trying to ban imports because I re-read the entire thread and I see nothing like that, though I admit I may have glossed over it.

You know, I just find it strange that there are people that put others down for no reason other than they're trying to support their own country. As far as I can tell, that only happens in the USA and it's collective social sickness IMHO.

As I've said previously, though, I've given up on trying for all Made in the USA because I'd never get anything done. Ever since I've started sourcing from Canada, USA, Europe, and even India though, I pay a little more but the quality is FAR better almost across the board, my work is better, and I spend far less time struggling and fighting poor, unreliable tools.

[Alan Schaffter]

Yep, I know. And I'm referring to your post specifically. You called his entire post "factually incorrect".

Puttin' words in my mouth- didn't say his "entire" post was factually incorrect. But most of it was.

Without arguement, I'd say the following is indeed correct:

Gotta "argue with that too"

"When people don't have jobs they don't have incomes, and therefore they don't pay income taxes."

I don't have a job, but have income, and pay taxes.

"When you buy made-in-usa you helped put one of your neighbors back to work"

Not true in many cases. Many examples but here is one- a company may be able to assemble 10,000 widgets with the same labor force as it takes to produce 20,000 widgets. What if some components come from offshore, in that case buying made-in-usa may theoretically result more foreign workers being hired by a foreign factory!

"The federal government spends more than they take in, so they racked up a 14 trillion dollar debt"

Just a sound bite that is only partially true. How does the Fed deficit affect employment (don't waste your time answering, too complex)? But where do you suppose the money spent by the Fed goes? Much of it goes back into US pockets for goods, services, and social programs- security (military), harbor, highway, etc. maint, Social Security, Medicare, etc. etc., etc., etc.! Why do you suppose the economy has always been strongest when the Fed is over-spending outrageously during war!

As for "40% of Americans live in poverty now." Yeah, he missed that one, it's not 40%, it's 46+ million and rising.

If you accept the definition and number it is more like 15%. But you can Google all day and still not find "universally accepted definitions and data." Just look at some of the terms used by the Government and other organizations: Absolute poverty threshold, relative poverty threshold, Annual poverty rate, Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP), Average monthly poverty, Chronic or long-term poverty, Cross-sectional survey data, Entrance rate, Episodic poverty, Equivalence scale, Federal Poverty Level (FPL), Gini ratio, Income deficit/income surplus, Income surplus, Income-to-poverty ratio, Longitudinal survey data, Long-term poverty, Monthly poverty, Poverty areas, Poverty in the past 12 months, Poverty rate, Poverty spell, Poverty thresholds, Poverty universe, Ratio of income to poverty, Relative poverty thresholds, Small Area Income and Poverty Estimates, Working poor, and the list goes on!

As I said in another post, the issue is too complex to be completely and intelligently analyzed and discussed in a WW forum, and certainly can't be solved by sound bites!

[Ruel Smith]

This is a fallacy... Economics 101: A good or service will sell in the market for whatever the market will bear, regardless of the cost to produce. If a table saw costs $1000 to produce, or $2000, if they can get you to pay $3500, they will. Affordable machines have just about always been there, even when everything was made in the USA. They just have lower QC, not as well designed, etc.. Believe me, if Grizzly could command Powermatic prices, they would. Powermatic is still sky high, even though it's made in either China or Taiwan, and they're not getting any cheaper. They didn't drop the price of Powermatic when it switched production offshore, either.

Another element is the cost of raw goods. The cost of oil, copper, steel and just about all raw goods has skyrocketed, mostly because of the new demand of the rising Chinese market for them. Bringing production back to the US will subdue the cost of raw goods, somewhat, and lower the cost to produce.

[Halgeir Wold]

While I really should leave this thread alone, and to all you US guys, there is some points that have hardly been mentioned.
I think most of us can see the point i "Buy Local", whatever that may be, but that is unfortunately a point of little relevance in todays world.

I work in the electronic business, - design and service. Been with the same company all my professional life, since 1975. When I started out as a greenhorn engineer, most quality instruments were "Made in USA". Companies like Hewlett-Packard, Tectronix, General Radio etc. were the more common brands on our service desks. Semiconductors too were mostly made by Texas Instruments, National Semiconductor, Analog Devices, Burr Brown etc.etc. Mostly all-american. made.......
Come 1980 or so, the labels on the instruments and component bags changed. They all started to read "Made in Singapore, -Taiwan, Indonesia, Korea" and so on. And this was in the 80's. Why is that? one may think....

The pricipal mechanics af all shareholding companies are to make profit for the owners. That's nothing new, and I think we all accept that. What has changed dramatically, is the personality of ownership. While up until the 80's, minor shareholders were strong in the markets, accepting their 2-4% dividend and a genuine knowledge of ownership. Todays shareholders are mostly consortiums and investment companies, whose only aim seems to be " Get in - get the doe- get out".
If the goal of 15% annual profit shows to be only 10%, the saying isn't "We only made 10% this year", No - it is "We lost 5%!. This is totally unacceptable!" " Let's get out and dump this S**t!". The Gordon Gekkos of the modern world are for real! You americans, of all, should really know that!? Year 2008 ring any bells?

While I would love to get my hands of some of the machines and tools you can get, mostly non-US made, I cannot, for obvious reasons. Well - to a small extent I can, but then the price of the Jet this-or-that have almost tripled when it gets over here. Go figure.... I used to build loudspeakersand amps - a real HiFi buff :-). US based Madisound retails Norwegian made Seas loudspeaker elements at rougly 60% of our local retail prices... go figure....

Dear friends and members of the Creek - this is just our beloved market economy at work - no more - no less." One's death - another mans bread" goes a saying over here. As I slowly become of age, me thinks that Mr. Friedman needs a solid revision!

EDIT: I forgot to mention, that of all the still US registered instrument and semiconductor companies, I doubt that there are any left that actually have any production left in domestic US.

[Jared McMahon]

As far as the original question goes, I'm not sure how much more can be said. I'm generally a hand tool person so I have very solid default vendors to run to like Lie-Nielsen, Wenzloff and Lee Valley (Canadians are our kissin' cousins).

To the larger discussion, and I hope this stays solidly in the realm of economics and not politics, there was a recent NPR story about Apple's manufacturing processes and it raised some excellent points about the resources available in China and the economies of scale. It really muddied the waters for me in terms of how manufacturing items in China keeps price point down, there are an awful lot of variables in play.

To the Grizzly discussion, I admit I'm somewhat biased towards them. I live only an hour or so south of their Bellingham, WA facility so I consider them kinda-sorta local. That's also why I consider Canada as effectively "local"; if I break speed limits, I can be at the border in around an hour.

[Mike Archambeau]

Yep, I know. And I'm referring to your post specifically. You called his entire post "factually incorrect". Without arguement, I'd say the following is indeed correct:

"Well it might have something to do with helping to put Americans back to work"
"When people don't have jobs they don't have incomes, and therefore they don't pay income taxes."
"When you buy made-in-usa you helped put one of your neighbors back to work"
"The federal government spends more than they take in, so they racked up a 14 trillion dollar debt"

As for "40% of Americans live in poverty now." Yeah, he missed that one, it's not 40%, it's 46+ million and rising.

U.S. Poverty: Census Finds Nearly Half Of Americans Are Poor Or Low-Income

"Squeezed by rising living costs, a record number of Americans – nearly 1 in 2 – have fallen into poverty or are scraping by on earnings that classify them as low income.The latest census data depict a middle class that's shrinking as unemployment stays high and the government's safety net frays. The new numbers follow years of stagnating wages for the middle class that have hurt millions of workers and families.

About 97.3 million Americans fall into a low-income category, commonly defined as those earning between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that is designed to provide a fuller picture of poverty. Together with the 49.1 million who fall below the poverty line and are counted as poor, they number 146.4 million, or 48 percent of the U.S. population. That's up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the newly developed poverty measure."

The complete analysis can be read here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1150128.html

I am neither poor or low income and am eternally grateful for that. But it troubles me that so many of our fellow citizens are poor or low income. The magnitude of the problem is almost ovewhelming but believe me there are a lot of people who would benefit from the job they would get if you spent your hard earned money on made-in-usa..............you could change the course of things begining with your next purchase......now I need to read my youngster a story before we tuck him in for the night, and we will hope his future is brighter than the one that a lot of youngsters will face if we don't fix this situation......

[Kevin W Johnson]

U.S. Poverty: Census Finds Nearly Half Of Americans Are Poor Or Low-Income

"Squeezed by rising living costs, a record number of Americans – nearly 1 in 2 – have fallen into poverty or are scraping by on earnings that classify them as low income.The latest census data depict a middle class that's shrinking as unemployment stays high and the government's safety net frays. The new numbers follow years of stagnating wages for the middle class that have hurt millions of workers and families.

About 97.3 million Americans fall into a low-income category, commonly defined as those earning between 100 and 199 percent of the poverty level, based on a new supplemental measure by the Census Bureau that is designed to provide a fuller picture of poverty. Together with the 49.1 million who fall below the poverty line and are counted as poor, they number 146.4 million, or 48 percent of the U.S. population. That's up by 4 million from 2009, the earliest numbers for the newly developed poverty measure."

The complete analysis can be read here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...n_1150128.html

I am neither poor or low income and am eternally grateful for that. But it troubles me that so many of our fellow citizens are poor or low income. The magnitude of the problem is almost ovewhelming but believe me there are a lot of people who would benefit from the job they would get if you spent your hard earned money on made-in-usa..............you could change the course of things begining with your next purchase......now I need to read my youngster a story before we tuck him in for the night, and we will hope his future is brighter than the one that a lot of youngsters will face if we don't fix this situation......

I don't disagree with you, Alan was calling your post "factually incorrect", which is what i disagree with. There is a difference in poverty and low income, I was merely pointing out the poverty numbers, which is mid-upper 40 millions (46-49, depending on what you read) add that to low income, and yes it's a very large number. But again I was commenting based on your use of "poverty" and the fact that your original comment didn't include low income.


Again, I agree with you.

Made in USA needs to be in the front of peoples minds. It's harder to find these days, but every time we can make that choice, it helps our fellow neighbors, whether they be next door, or states away. Not everyone is college bound, not everyone can be doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, etc, etc. Manufacturing jobs mean decent wages for people that would otherwise be stuck at the likes of Walmart, etc. As a country we have been replacing high/good paying manufacturing jobs, with low paying retail service jobs at alarming rates, and there's nothing positive to say for that.

[Kevin W Johnson]

3 cheers for this post.

THanks to affordable machinery, I was able to start my business on a shoestring and have been making stuff for 13 years which is "made in america".

If the "buy in america" only fanatics had their way, I doubt I could have pulled it off.

Congrats, your products you produce are "made in America", if there were no "made in america", "fanatics" as you put it, Who would buy your product?

[Neil Brooks]

The floor is starting to tilt, and get a might slippery.

Meaning ... this thread really could be going downhill

[Van Huskey]

I am all too willing to argue about pretty much anything BUT this thread has lived a long useful life, lets try to make sure it doesn't become a tit for tat argument that precludes the usefulness of the thread.

Disagree about the quality of Asian sourced machines or the superiority of those built in Europe or why 70 year old US built machines are the best thing since sliced bread... There is plenty of meat on those bones!

[Jeff Duncan]

Nice try Van, but this thread has gone way off the deep end. Truthfully I'm usually in favor of the mods giving us some leeway in these discussions, unfortunately you can have a few people who want to turn it into a political pissing match and ruin the thread for the rest of us.

I'm happy to start comparing the older US made stuff to the older Euro stuff to whatever....but I think it's too late for this thread.....RIP

JeffD