Who is Your Favorite Handsaw Maker?

[Tim Null]

All good stuff guys, thanks. I may have to learn how to sharpen my own saws, as Marv suggested. For any of you who do, is it any tougher than sharpening planes or files?

[Marv Werner]

Tim,

Don't know nut'n bout sharpening a file.

But, yes, lots more to learn about sharpening a saw plus you'll need a method to hold and clamp the saw while you file it. I think the vise that TFWW is a good vise. Cost about $120. You will need a good saw set. I will only recommend a Stanley 42X. I buy them on eBay. Opps...am I allowed to say that?

You will need to acquaint yourself with the various size files needed for different size teeth. TFWW will sell you some good ones and they have a list of sizes for each size tooth. Before you get started, google "sharpening handsaws" and read what all the good filers have written about it. You could start by going to Norsewood.com and read what Leif Hanson has written. He's a good start and also directs you to other treatise on the web on the subject.

Marv

[Tim Null]

Thanks Marv, meant chisels not files.......must have had that thought on the brain.

[Gary Herrmann]

I'll echo the fact that Mark Harrell is a first class guy to do business with.

Now he's coming out with a dovetail saw too? I wonder why he didn't do that first? Less competition for tenon saws maybe.

[Adam Cherubini]

Including my own line of saws my favorite saw maker is Mike Wenzloff and Sons. I think the total package- design, finishing, and toothing is the best. As individuals, I like Joel's Gramercy DT best out of the DT saws, but the handle is too thin for my meat hooks (but I'm a freak). I think a very finely toothed DT saw offers a significant difference in the capability and user experience. Applied strictly (to thin stock) this saw is just plain better than coarser toothed alternatives. I thought the spines were too light, but I liked them in use.

All the others I've tried (and I think I've tried them all except Cosman's) are nice. Most or all have something I really like about them. The LV is by far the best buy.

But some had teeth that I felt made no sense and didn't work well. For example; I'm not a fan of LN's progressive teeth. I think the difference between toe and heel is much too great. I don't recall if there was a corresponding difference in rake angle (there should have been) and I think they applied this technology to the wrong saws in their line up. It would be better on the larger saws. Really bad choice for a DT in my opinion. I've also encountered what I hope were QA problems with one saw. But this was a while ago and LN excels at working stuff liek that out.

Several makers are not tapering their saw plates (on their back saws) depthwise which I feel is an escape. It's easier to fabricate a rectangular saw plate, but it makes the tools unneccessarily toe heavy. More than that, it represents de-optimization which I feel runs counter to what the boutique saw makers should be all about. Ditto, saw makers should pay closer attention to the depth of cut and hang anges for back saws.

The one thing I think I was best at was linking teeth, handle angles and plate size and shape to actual (and specific) cuts. I wasn't the best maker, but I think my products were more highly optimized than any others on the market. I believe my soft wood rip saw for example was extremely fast cutting out of the box. I've never seen it's equal. The teeth on that saw were 100% hand filed. They changed in size and shape all across the saw plate. Not so easy to start with a mechanically toothed saw and get it to cut like mine. Next chance I get, I'll make some of these saws for industry folks or try to work out a better way to make teeth that mimic those on the rip saws I made.

I think there's a question about whether the cost associated with my custom filings (I never made money making saws) was worth it. It's possible some users wouldn't be able to tell the difference. (that doesn't mean it isn't there or that the difference is irrelevant however)

In general, I think what happened to the 19th century tool industry is that they became so big they lost touch with expert users who previously defined their products. My friend Chris Storb (carver/conservator, Philadelphia Museum of Art) says the difference between Addis' carving tools and current makers' is that Addis built tools for professional carvers and modern makers build for amateurs (us!).

I think that can happen to us so I feel questions like this one are important. My experience was, at the demo table, the DT with the finest teeth and most rake will be the biggest crowd pleasers. But these aren't necessarily features that will make them good users. So manufacturers need to be careful to make saws to support the experts all of their customers will (hopefully) soon become. That's tricky business indeed.

Adam

[David Keller NC]

Tim - I've a whole lot of saws - mostly vintage Disstons and 19th century British makers, but also around 12 Lie-Nielsens/Wenzlof & Sons/Adria, etc...

My personal preference in backsaws where the ones made in the early 20th century by the British firm Drabble & Sons because they've got exceptionally heavy brass backs, thin saw plates, and works-of-art totes. However, it might be tough to find one of these in good condition as it was a fairly small firm.

As for new saws, I personally prefer Lie-Nielsen and/or Wenzlof & Sons. To me, both have a similar design philosophy with relatively thin plates, relatively larger totes, and fairly thin brass backs.

The only caution I'd give if you decide on one of the small-shop saws (Wenzlof & Sons, Bad Axe, etc...) is that you call to check for availability before you buy. Most of these gentlemen don't have the manufacturing capacity to keep up with the demand for their products, and you could be waiting as long as 6 months for your order if it's not in stock.

[Pam Niedermayer]

I mostly use Japanese saws and the best (vs favorite, I actually don't much like this guy) I know of was Yataiki (Miyano del Endo); but he's on his last legs and I'm waiting for Mark Grable (he studied with Yataiki) to come to market. Fortunately I probably won't need more saws anytime soon.

Pam

[Johnny Kleso]

Another good saw maker is Ed Paik not to be over looked..
http://www.medalliontools.com/

He made one of three saw makers that started their businesses on another web fourm when they allowed members to sell direct to other members it was a really great thing to see these small businesses start

[Gary Radice]

My personal preference in backsaws where the ones made in the early 20th century by the British firm Drabble & Sons because they've got exceptionally heavy brass backs, thin saw plates, and works-of-art totes. However, it might be tough to find one of these in good condition as it was a fairly small firm.

I recently picked up a Drabble and Sanderson DT saw from a well known online auction site. It is dull and I haven't sharpened it yet to use it, but it fits my hand nicely. This is my first English cabinetry saw. I've used Japanese saws almost exclusively before so I can't really weigh in on which saw is the best. Just thought I would toss up a picture since David mentioned Drabble and Sanderson.

[David Gendron]

In my opinion, the best one I have are the Bad Axe saws, and I have LN, Medallion, Wenzloff, Adria, Gramercy and some vintage ones... That said other than the LN, all the other are great saws espacialy the Adria(carcass and tenon saw) and Gramercy(only have there DT saw) and these are all back saws. As for panel saw, I love my old disston #7, nothinh better then them in my opinion!!
But again, this is all mather of preferences, since all of them(new saw makers) make wonderfull saws!!

[Marv Werner]

Hi David,

All of those saw makers fall into a certain category of expertise...

Then there are the Andrew Lunn saws that are in a category of their own. I can understand why his saws have not been mentioned in this thread.

Marv

[Michael Hammers]

My favorite for joinery saws is Andrew Lunn's Eccentric Toolworks ...I just ordered my first panel saw from Mike W. so I am sure it will be just fine...

M

[David Weaver]

The only saws I have are wenzloff saws, and those are kits, but after dealing with Mike, he gets my vote. Patient discussion, prices that are way more than fair, and a full line of saws from dovetail to panel saws, including tapered blade panel saws.

The kit parts are top notch to your specs and really inexpensive for what you get.

I have never used a new panel or carpenter's saw, but I like #7s and #12s an awful lot. I'd imagine I would like any saw with a lot of taper and a handle orientation ( to the plate ) like a #12 or #7 tote.

That said, it is awfully awfully difficult to beat gyochuko and Z brand saws for value in very tough and very useful and nice cutting utility grade saws. If you shop around, their impulse hardened blades are only marginally more than files cost if you figure they hold their edges a whole lot longer than do western saws. They are not taper ground and do not feel like an expensive saw, but they leave a cut quality that i haven't seen anywhere else - especially not at the speed that they do it.

[Marv Werner]

Michael,

A very nice display of the best saws on the market. I especially like the one on the left. Took more than a couple days to make that handle.

Marv

[Michael Hammers]

Thank you...Andrew is not only a super talented tool maker but just a genuine down to earth super nice guy.

Now to get my skill level up to what these saws are capable of.

Having a high-end saw does not magically make one a master sawyer...

I am very much looking forward to receiving Mike's saw...After chatting him up he is kindly using a piece of figured maple he had sitting about to go with the maple on the joinery saws..(oh vanity)

22" blade length
9 ppi cross cut
.035" taper ground
7" height at the heel
Curly Maple handle


Cheers,

Michael