Mahoney vs. Ellsworth?

[Eric Jacobson]

I'm adding a couple turning books/DVDs to my birthday list. So far, I've only watched/read Raffan's stuff. I truely love Raffan's taste in bowls and his passionate instruction on style. However, his demos are so quick and he does a lot of weird stuff that I can't get to work (e.g., the one-handed grind with caliper in the other hand). I want to expand my learning with either some Mahoney or Ellsworth stuff?

My main interest is improving my bowl technique and broadening my understanding of grinds, cuts, and finesse. I'm an occasional weekend warrior with about 30 finished bowls to my name

They both appear to be good instructors, based on youtube clips. Ellsworth's techniques seem cheaper if he actually teaches how to do it all with one gouge. However, I'm wondering if his stuff is too advanced for me or if his videos are not bowl-centric enough for me. Mahoney seems influenced by Raffan, but his grinds seem a bit more traditional than Raffan's, which seems less intimidating than Raffan.

Anyway, if you own these videos or have taken classes from each of these masters. Who did you learn the most from? Which videos did you enjoy the most?

[Faust M. Ruggiero]

Eric,
I own a number of instructional DVD's including all those you mentioned and others, like Jimmy Clewes and Bill Grumbine. Bill is a member of our local club and I took a one day lesson from him. His outgoing personality is equally present on the DVD as in real life. David Ellsworth is also local but I have only met him. I own two of his teaching videos. He is wonderful to watch and does nothing without a good reason and teaches both the method and the reasoning. Though most bowl turners use a fingernail grind, David teaches why it is so useful.
So here's my advise. Buy them all, one or two at a time. Sell the ones you don't want to keep and build a library of the ones that work for you.
fmr

[Ron Lynch]

I have one of Mahoney's DVDs "Bowl Basics" and it is pretty good at showing tool positions and techniques, but I think Bil Grumbine's DVD "Bowls Made Easy" is a little better overall. I have Ellsworth's book and it's a little intimidating.

[David E Keller]

I've got a couple of Mahoney's DVDs, and I like them. If I were to recommend a bowl video, I'd actually go with Bill Grumbine. Jimmy Clewes would actually be my second choice with Mahoney third. I've not seen an Ellsworth DVD, but I've enjoyed his books.

[Thom Sturgill]

I have to agree with David on this, but it may be a little closer on Jimmy Clewes if he had a bowl specific DVD. (I have several, and like them all). I don't have David Ellsworth's yet, but it is on my to-buy list. I have both of Bill Grumbine's and one of Mahoney's. I also agree with Faust - but don't be too quick to discard. You may find bits and pieces worth coming back to.

[Michael James]

Each has his own style and one could learn from them all. Let me muddy the water and throw in Del Stubbs.... this guy's down home, "aw, shucks" attitude in engaging and his genuine passion for turning wood is quite apparent. The guy is a tinkerer and makes a lot of sense to me.
+1 on get em all!
mj

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I'm going to toss in Lyle Jamiesons Bowl Basics (IIRC) in just to mention yet another DVD that is outstanding, IMO. My first choice would be Bill's. Lyle goes a little more in depth of the reasoning behind what he's talking about.

I also think Raffan is a bit too fast for my slow brain. He does things way fast, and I just can't get it.....

[Bernie Weishapl]

I like Mike Mahoney's From the Tree To The Table. Excellent DVD. His bowl basics is good to.

[Richard Madden]

I agree about Raffan being too fast. Impressive, but not that great at teaching most of us rookies. Del Stubbs video is very good. I had the Bill Grumbine DVD that John Keeton graciously put out there in the mobile library, and it is excellent. Those are the only three I can speak of.

[George Morris]

What a good problem to have! They are all great turners! bill Grumbine is a terrific person and great bowl turner, Take his class if possible.
David Elsworth is the Master above all,His class is the best this is a great experience to have 3 days with one of the greatest turners alive! Take advantage when you can.

[Don Geiger]

I've seen all the instructors mentioned in this thread and they are all very good. Obviously, there are many techniques that work. Ellsworth's approach is easily understood and works in a very wide range of applications. The grind he uses is easily attained using a jig which, as an instructor myself, I put much emphasis on.

I took two classes from Ellsworth several years ago and have assisted him numerous times with classes at Arrowmont. I admire David as a teacher and a person.

Ellsworth's approach to bowl turning ie; using one gouge with one grind throughout the process, is one that is easily learned by new and experienced turners. Sure there are situations occasionally where another bevel angle is necessary (like when you can't maintain bevel contact on the inside bottom of a bowl), but that can be avoided in most circumstances.

I have about 15 gouges in my shop with the Ellsworth grind and 3 or 4 others that have other grinds. I turn open forms, hollow forms and sculptural pieces and seldom have to reach for the "3 or 4 others".

I recommend adding Elsworth's DVD and his book to your library.

Don Geiger

[Bill Blasic]

You would be better served with videos from Mahoney, Grumbine or Clewes in no particular order.
Bill

[Alec Moseley]

you mention books as well as videos, and sometimes having a book and pictures you can take out to the shop and lay down next to the lathe or the grinder is a good thing. If you are interested in a book, I recommend Ellsworth's fairly new one, called something like Ellsworth on Woodturning. It goes into some basic, illustrated concepts about tool angle and presentation for various types of cut and other techniques I think you'll learn from.

[Tom Godley]

For me ....... more is not better -- I can not try to go in every direction because I end up not doing anything well.

I started out taking the Ellsworth class and enjoyed his approach to turning. This requires a few specialized tools and sharpening jigs. While he teaches many aspects of turning -- The making of hollow forms with (hopefully) very small openings is the thrust of much of the class.

I think you should decide what it is you want to concentrate on for a while and get those instructions. The Ellsworth approach is not too advanced - you are just doing something that requires some finesse - its not about speed or pumping out bowls. He does his work green -- even if you do everything correctly -- it can crack or warp in ways yo do not like -- thats part of the fun. I also like that fact that his style is simple without the use of any of the hollowing jigs.

[Eric Jacobson]

Thanks for the suggestions. Bill Grumbine and Ellsworth have gone to the top of my list. I watched some of Bill's clips and he seems practical and easy to follow.

I think the instructor I had, Frank Bowers, here in Atlanta, may have taught me using an Ellsworth-ish method. If so, building on it may suit me.

Which Ellsworth video is the best if I am only interested in open bowls? It looks like most of them are only available in VHS though? That sounds awful...I don't know if I remember how to use my VCR.