What method to make a solid wood cabinet back?

[Tony Shea]

Kind of a confusing thread title I know, also is somewhat of a rediculous question. But I have never built an actual solid wood cabinet in similar style to Krenov therefore am kind of stuck on what to do for the back of the cabinet. There are 3 types of backs I've considered and two methods of joining them to the cabinet. I am not sure which would be best. I've considered just gluing up a panel and planing it down to about 1/4". With this method I'm not sure if it would be better to rabbet the back edges of the cabinet sides or if I should run a dado all the way around about 1/4" to 3/8" from the back edge and glue the cabinet around the panel. I'm not real excited about this method as I would lose some cabinet depth.

The other type of back I considered was is a frame and panel back. This method would get rabbeted into the cabinet sides and glued in place. But would the rabbet create a weird glue line between the frames outside edge and rabbeted sides? I've just never seen this in person therefore don't know how it might turn out.

The last method would be shiplapped cabinet back. This method is something I have no experience in either and really don't know the method of joining to the cabinet. I also do not know how the boards join together, Im assuming a tongue and groove.

Some ideas and experiences would be greatly appreciated. Sorry if this question seems odvious, just have never built a solid wood cabinet in which the back was that important. The cabinet is small and is going to sit on to of a dresser in which jewelry and other smallish important items are kept.

[Charles Wiggins]

I guess my first question would be, do you have a compelling reason to make a sold wood back as opposed to using plywood? Unless I have a structural or decorative reason to use solid wood I generally use 1/4" plywood for cabinet backs. If I expect it to receive some abuse I might use 1/2" or 3/4" ply.

My only reason for using solid wood would be if I wanted the back to be decorative or if i was trying to mimic a vintage look like if i was doing a pie safe, for example. A shiplap joint, with a decorative bead would be excellent in that case. A shiplap joint is generally formed by cutting rabbets to half the depth of you stock thickness on opposite sides of the two adjoining edges. One advantage of the overlap is that you don't see daylight coming through the joint even if your wood shrinks over time.

Here is a good example of how to do a shiplap cabinet back.

[glenn bradley]

Ply or luan if it is a no-show like the back of a dresser. If it will show like the back of a display case or a bookcase, I use strips that I lap joint and sometimes dress up with a scratch stock.

[Dave Cav]

I used shiplap on the china cabinet I recently built. The pieces are (approximatey) 4" wide with a 1/2" lap. I ran the laps on my shaper with the power feeder and then instead of a bead, I put a small 45 degree bevel on each edge so there was a small reveal between each board. Each board was fastened with one screw at the top and one at the bottom, right in the center of the end of the board.

[Glen Butler]

Ply or luan if it is a no-show like the back of a dresser. If it will show like the back of a display case or a bookcase, I use strips that I lap joint and sometimes dress up with a scratch stock.

Boy am I glad I visited today. I have been wondering how to finish the back of a china hutch and this is perfect. You just never know what you are going to learn here.

[Kent A Bathurst]

I used shiplap on the china cabinet I recently built. The pieces are (approximatey) 4" wide with a 1/2" lap. I ran the laps on my shaper with the power feeder and then instead of a bead, I put a small 45 degree bevel on each edge so there was a small reveal between each board. Each board was fastened with one screw at the top and one at the bottom, right in the center of the end of the board.

Ditto, sort of. I used shiplap w/ small 45 bevels for the backs on repro Stickely bookcases. Well, actually, that's how Gustave did it. He used nails. I used screws. I also used log run QSWO on the back + shelves, so the boards themselves are of varying widths. Did mine on the TS.

Tony - The "shiplap" edge on boards is closely related to "tongue & groove" but different and easier. If you knew that, sorry - wasn't clear to me from your post.

[Tony Shea]

I decided at the beginning of this project that I was absolutly not using any plywood/luan on any of this project. I want the back to look just as good as the front, especially the inside of the back. Not only that, I really am not into using plywood for my projects other than shop furniture or jigs. But most of my work is by handtools anyway therefore my plywood jigs are kept to a minimum.

And I wasn't completely sure how shiplapped backs were created. I honestly thought it was a tongue and groove joint, not an actual lap joint as the name implies. Probably should have been odvious and could have done a little more research about it. But I think I am going to go with this route, I like the simplicity of it and it seems to look very nice. That is the goal. Thanks everyone for the help.

[Paul Murphy]

Sounds like you like the shiplap look, and I do too. Don't forget to take into account wood movement along the width of the boards, something like 1/8" per foot of width. I just take playing cards and space the joints apart until the last board, then trim it to the same gap. If you want all the boards the same size, then you will have to do the math...I like the random width mathless method .

If you are building a large cabinet without a lot of internal structure a frame and panel back will lend quite a bit of rigidity, and looks great on furniture seen from all sides.

[Jon van der Linden]

The shiplap will work of course, but if you're gluing, nothing is simpler than a flat joint. The shiplap's main use is for areas where it will allow for wood movement and boards aren't attached to one another. If the cabinet is relatively small like most Krenov style cabinets, there isn't going to be as much movement as in a "china cabinet" which is presumably much larger.

Keep in mind that the back of the cabinet is visible in this case and the laps will either enhance the appearance or detract from it. If you want it to look just like the front, then make it similar to the front. There should be a relationship and balance between all parts of the cabinet.

Regardless, you don't want to glue in the back. That's asking for trouble when the wood moves. (Unless of course you are laminating the whole thing ebenisterie style, but that's a different topic all together.)

[Tony Shea]

You know, I never really thought about glueing of the back and wood movement. Seems so odvious but really spaced on that. So if I was to make a matching frame and panel back similar to the door then what would be the correct method of joining it? A simple rabbet around the back edges of the sides and top and tack it in with nails? Just seems like such a simple detail but is the hardest part for me to work out for some reason. The rest of the cabinet is fairly straight forward, dovetailed case and a Krenov style raised panel door. The door will be inset of the top and bottom and will be overlay of the sides hinged with knife hinges. One would think I could figure out the back.

This is just a design I've worked out in my head and sketched/mocked up till I thought proportions were right on. It's been a great learning experience with solid wood cabinetry as opposed to the typical plywood cabinetry I used to make. It's been great fun as well doing all joinery by hand, and has led me to the purchase of some beautiful new hand tools.

[Jon van der Linden]

You know, I never really thought about glueing of the back and wood movement. Seems so odvious but really spaced on that. So if I was to make a matching frame and panel back similar to the door then what would be the correct method of joining it? A simple rabbet around the back edges of the sides and top and tack it in with nails? Just seems like such a simple detail but is the hardest part for me to work out for some reason. The rest of the cabinet is fairly straight forward, dovetailed case and a Krenov style raised panel door. The door will be inset of the top and bottom and will be overlay of the sides hinged with knife hinges. One would think I could figure out the back.

This is just a design I've worked out in my head and sketched/mocked up till I thought proportions were right on. It's been a great learning experience with solid wood cabinetry as opposed to the typical plywood cabinetry I used to make. It's been great fun as well doing all joinery by hand, and has led me to the purchase of some beautiful new hand tools.

Simple rabbet, check. Avoid nails in this case, prevents fixing any problems and may cause splits. I'd use screws, be sure to pre-drill.

Is this a wall cabinet or does it have a base?

[Kent A Bathurst]

.......make a matching frame and panel back similar to the door then what would be the correct method of joining it? A simple rabbet around the back edges of the sides and top.......

As Jon said - yep. My issue - besides the authenticity - was a 30"+ x 50"+ solid glued panel out of 1/2" - 5/8" stock. I simply didn't want to fool around with getting that flat. The sectioned shiplap QSWO has stayed flat for 12+ years.

[Bob Avery]

Newbie question regarding ship lapped boards - I am making a back for a Stickley 700 bookcase. The design is a face frame with top, middle and bottom rails. All rails are grooved to allow ship lapped boards of various widths to be inserted. The stiles are grooved as well to allow for placement of the rails.

From reading this thread it appears the recommended method of attaching the frame to the back is with screws.

I'm planning to glue the rails to the stiles after inserting my ship lapped boards. Should the individual ship lapped boards be glued to one another along the edges or just left in an overlap pattern so they can float a bit across their width?

My thinking is if the rails are fixed and the groove within the rails is deep enough, then the only risk of not gluing is some extra noise from the boards shifting as the front door of the bookcase is opened and closed.

I was planning on leaving a total of 1/8" gap between the stiles to handle wood expansion.

Is it useful to insert space balls along the stiles and rails to try and keep things a bit quieter?

Thanks for any advice.

[Andrew Hughes]

No glue on the length of the ship lap.That were they need to move right. I have a tall cypress cabinet I made that has ship lap back and there's no noise from the back. The doors will rumble a little but my house has a raised foundation with wood floors so there no sneaking around here.
Thumbs down on space balls.

[Mike Heaney]

Here is one I just did this week. I too have used shiplap, with the addition of a small 45 degree bevel for aesthetic reasons, although this one is a little different (you might just be able to make out a shiplap backed cabinet in the back left of the photo).
My local wood place had pre-made cedar bead board- the pieces are about 4" wide, 1/2" thick and that width includes two beads down the middle to make it look like two boards. The join between the boards is tongue and groove with beads, and when assembled, matches the central bead layout of each board. I find setting up the router table for my tongue and groove bits to be a real pain, and only worth it for a big run. So for a single bookcase, this option looked worth a try.
Finished it off with shellac, the rest of the bookcase is poplar finished with milk paint. The cedar can be a little fragile, and prone to long splits, but with careful selection this worked well.
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