Changes at Delta?

[John Fabre]

We are doing it to ourselfs.

[Dar Lounsbury]

Name means absolutely nothing today. The Delta name may go away but the same tool will most likely be made under DeWalt or Porter Cable.

Oh joy. I look forward to the Black & Decker Unisaw. 1/2 hp motor, plastic fence and wheels. Table top cast aluminum.

Would make the low end stuff out of China look real good.

[John Coloccia]

They pretty much ceased production of these items as far as I'm concerned a decade ago. Selling the generic Taiwanese stuff with your color scheme and logo on it is hardly an industry leading move. Having those items, if this rumor is at all true, go away would hardly affect the industry at all. I see they are releasing a new scroll saw, and the ads talk about getting back to their roots. My older delta shaper has been declared obsolete, which means they no longer support it for parts, which means they have lost me as a customer pretty much for the remainder of my life. Perhaps when I get old and senile I will forget the experience of having a rude CS rep tell me bluntly that I should buy a new machine, that mine is too old, and that I'm on my own as far as finding a new spindle. Funny, I can still get parts for older powermatics? If they are going to operate like that they may as well close.

Exactly. I now own one Delta tool: a drill press. I would have replaced it by now but I'm waiting to see what Grizzly comes up with. It's a truly dreadful tool. Getting rid of everything except the Unisaw sounds like a good move to since it's the only thing they make reliably and well, IMHO. Everything else can be had for much cheaper elsewhere, and with far better customer service. If the rumor's true, it sound like a good move to me.

[Kent A Bathurst]

....I have a hard time accepting threads like this.....The OP starts this thread stating there is a RUMOR on several websites that Delta is being downsized. Keep in mind, a lot of the information found on the internet is far from being accurate........I would hate to see a company pay an economic penalty for an Internet RUMOR.

Ken - I agree, up to a certain point. "Don't believe everything you read" was solid-gold gospel BEFORE there was an internet - even more so now. If a fella somewhere makes a major tool decision based on some crap floating around on the internet, he's gonna have a long, hard road in more areas than woodworking, I'm afraid, and he deserves it. I have taken many specific positive or negative actions based on discussions here at SMC, but certainly not with everything I read. I think I have a pretty good feel for the credentials of a number of folks, and will ride their horses. The other guys may be on-target, but I don't "know" them, at least not yet.

RE: domestic content - balderdash, IMO. Find the correct spot on the price/quality/features matrix and buy that item. Sometimes that means taking a deep breath and paying the price, sometimes it is lower on the price curve, sometimes it means not getting certain features because they simply would not come into play enough for me to pay that premium, sometimes it means I leave a higher quality item out of the picture because something else will do what I need. Companies will be successful if they offer the products people want to buy - and there is a market for the "made in USA" label, which they should certainly be considering in their strategic planning.

I have been very happy with my offshore PM60A, Delta 14" BS, Unisaw. If I was going to buy a new TS today, it would be the Uni. I had a garden-variety Delta DP which did a fine job for me, but decided to upgrade features, and bought a 1985 PM1150 VS. I did not choose that one because it was domestic, I got it because it landed in a preferred spot on my decision matrix, versus the PM2800 [which had a lower delivered cost].

[David Weaver]

Exactly. I now own one Delta tool: a drill press. I would have replaced it by now but I'm waiting to see what Grizzly comes up with. It's a truly dreadful tool. Getting rid of everything except the Unisaw sounds like a good move to since it's the only thing they make reliably and well, IMHO. Everything else can be had for much cheaper elsewhere, and with far better customer service. If the rumor's true, it sound like a good move to me.

Dittos to you guys. When I first got into WW, I bought the delta hybrid. Other than the bies fence, is' a very plain and probably below average chinese saw - pretty much near or at allowable tolerance everywhere (hollow front to back .01"+, .002+ runout at the arbor flange, near .01" runout at the end of the saw plate, and on and on).

They've been sitting on their name and riding it for a long time - making it out like there's some extra several hundred dollars in their imported goods because of the brand name while, in my opinion, Jet and powermatic have been eating their lunch when it comes to import quality control.

Someone else will buy the brand if it craps out.

[Curt Harms]

(1) I sure hope it isn't true.

(2) Based on what I've seen happen in other mergers and acquisitions, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

The problem with U.S. industry in a nutshell: Too many number crunchers, not enough visionaries.

You said a mouthful there, Phil.

[David Weaver]

There's another issue, and that's that we think we're buying tools that are professional tools. Those have moved on. Professional tools now are loaded with order information from the enterprise order system and go through order lists on their own with an operator loading stock in them.

We're buying what are hobbyist tools, with a few people who make a living still using them for custom and one-off work.

We're also buying them at what is probably 1/4th of the inflation adjusted cost of them when they were professional tools. Lowest price is king, and perceived value is some percentage above that for more features, and not some multiple.

I think my Delta hybrid say might say "professional" on the front, but the huge CHINA stamped on the crate was a lot more instructive.

[Gene Howe]

Atlas is shrugging.

[Will Overton]

There's a rumor floating around on a couple of other forums that Stanley is downsizing Delta to the point that there will only be six machines continuing production. Jointers, contractor saws, bandsaws, most planers and lathes will cease production.

If true, this would be a sad chapter in the history of a great brand!

Regards,

Ron

I tried a Google search on Delta's downsizing. I could only find one reference on the FineWoodworking forum. The poster said "I just heard" but never mentioned where he heard. He was asked to substantiate, but hasn't shown up.

If you go to Delta's website they have a picture of six tools that says, "Delta Launches A New Family of Tools". It's a pretty big stretch from that to "Delta is discontinuing most of their products".

Gotta love the internet for spreading rumors.

[Jerome Hanby]

I understand what you are saying, but on the flip side, if I'm about to buy a jointer, I'd rather pick Grizzly or Powermatic based on a false rumor of Delta's demise than go with the Delta and find out 6 months later that it's been dropped.

I saw a similar unfounded and un-sourced rumor on another forum and I asked myself why would someone perhaps injure a company, especially in this economy by repeating what they may have heard. Now the rumor is being posted here. What if several folks here make a different buying decision based on information that is maybe untrue? Negative information cannot be withdrawn.

I prefer to hear my rumors in the form of direct company announcements through the "official" media.

Paul

[Matt Meiser]

Why? Based on most reports, including ones heard first-hand from a Delta dealer, they are doing a pretty poor job of supporting their tools anyway for the past several years. I experienced that twice in recent years having to wait weeks for warranty parts on a Biesemeyer fence after they obliterated Biesemeyer and on missing parts for a machine. They also wiped out their parts inventory for old equipment and stopped supporting them. If you are buying Delta for the support, you're buying for the wrong reason.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jerome,

Suppose I start a "rumor" on the internet about you personally and it effects your life or livelyhood, would you change your attitude?

It's gossip ......drivel.....unproven rumors and nobody or a company should have to pay a price for that kind garbage.

Has it dawned on you that maybe it's a Delta competitor that started this whole RUMOR to effect their ability to compete with Delta?

Think about it.......the internet is the biggest source of misinformation in the world today because anybody can post anything without any validity to their post.

Beyond that....question when you see someone make a strong statement for or against a company or product. In some cases, people have reason to be strongly for or against something, some company etc. and can back up their statement with evidence. Sometimes, however, that person is a little off "kilter" .....has a skewed sense of right/wrong.....isn't being objective.

An example.....we have a lot of folks post here that have "0" experience using a particular type of woodworking tool. In one recent case, the guy buys a new tool....it didn't work as he thought it should.....he's here bad mouthing the tool...the company......and he's making major modifications to the tool....and the modifications made were STUPID. So....should the company suffer because of this consumers arrogance and stupidity? It was a brand new tool and the company is KNOWN for good customer service. After reading that post, if I was the company I would have refused to honor the guys warrantee because of the modifications....and the guy had not even called the company's tech support yet.........think about it.......

These type of threads are destructive and have very little value.

[John Callahan]

These type of threads are destructive and have very little value.

I'd agree ......... without a source it's hardly worth the 0's and 1's it was printed with. No question in my mind that Delta (and PC) have been on a roller coaster ride the last few years but if the new Uni and the 18-900L drill press are indications of what's to come, I'm looking forward to it.

Got a good look at 18-900L a few weeks ago at the Seven Corners tool show. Some very nice features and excellent fit and finish.

[Van Huskey]

I frequent many car forums and a post like this would be met by several or many one word posts: "Source?" until such time as a source is named every one treats it like simply an academic exercise with no real weight. The car industry is rife with rumor, rumor and spy photos are an entire industry in and of itself, in part fostered by the car companies who pretend to shun it, rumor gets them press and buzz, however they are good at managing it in print and on the internet. In the end even in that atmosphere I rarely see anyones actual buying choices significantly altered.

If I had planned to buy a Delta machine tomorrow this would not change my mind in the least, in fact it might hasten my purchase. I would have taken a pause IF the rumor was Delta was going out of business but without a decent source it would have only been a minute long pause. There are literally hundreds of posts a day on this forum that influence peoples buying decisions some a little and some a lot but it mainly comes down to credibility. People who are willing to change their buying decision based on a post like the OP are just as likely to buy a machine because the color matches the drapes in their house. I will continue to be aware of this potential story since I am one that thinks it might be a significant positive for Delta, a smaller line up built around the type of innovation that produced the new Unisaw and the current VS Midi lathe would certainly have products that interest me as it stands there isn't anything else in their lineup that is of any real interest to me.

[Jerome Hanby]

Jerome,

Suppose I start a "rumor" on the internet about you personally and it effects your life or livelyhood, would you change your attitude?

That one is pretty easy, no it would not change my attitude at all. IF (that's a big if) the Internet effects my livelihood, then a big part of my job better be to keep track of the buzz going around and address it as necessary. To carry me past any misleading rumors that I miss, I need to have such a good standing in the community that customers will actively contact me with concerns if they see such a rumor.

I have zero interest in new Delta equipment and I'm taking statements made here at face value, but it sounds like Delta has damaged their standing in the community with their customer service and the merry-go-round of ownership changes and they are not actively trying to quell "bad" Internet rumors.

A hypothetical situation, if the buzz was that Festool had been purchased by the xxxx and all their production was being relocated to Indonesia, no one would believe it, Festool would get a ton of inquires, and every where Festool has an Internet presence would be refuting the rumor.