ASP 2030 vs ASP 2060 vs CPM 10V (A-11)

[Shawn P. Smith]

I'm new to Sawmill Creek and to turning. I'm hoping to get some guidance on what turning tools to buy. I'm getting conflicting information on what type of steel is the best for turning tools.

I've been told that 2060 is better than 2030 because it holds an edge longer.

I've been told that 2030 is better because it is easier to sharpen and the edge is not as brittle as 2060.

When I read the posts here I see that a lot of turners like Doug Thompson's tools with the CPM 10V (A-11) steel.

I would appreciate some guidance from Turners with experience using different tools, their preferences, and why.

Thanks in advance.

[Wally Dickerman]

I have a number of bowl gouges in various types of steel. I've heard the citicism of 2060 being brittle. I've been using one for several years and I haven't experienced that.

My two go-to gouges are my 2060 and my Thompson. I feel that they are pretty close to being equal in quality with a slight nod to the Thompson. Since the Thompson is a lot less money than a 2060, the Thompson would be my suggestion for you.

Wally

[Ralph Lindberg]

Just to further cloud the issue, there is M42. Which also has a high wear factor and is not as brittle as some. If you read the metallurgy specs and verbiage for all of these alloys, and read all the opinions (which I have, and understand) you quickly realize it's mostly a matter of opinion. For most of us, we couldn't tell the difference with any of these tools. I have M42 tools and ASP 2030, and I can't tell which one is better. I suspect the same would be true if I had 2060 or 10V tools To my knowledge, D-Way tools is the only supplier that uses M42. What I like about D-Way is Dave supplies the tools sharp and completely polished and honed (including the flute)

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree with Wally. The Thompson gouges are my go to tools. A lot less expensive than the 2060 and I think they are a better gouge. Edge last longer in my opinion.

[Michael James]

No advice, Shawn, just a welcome to the Creek! Where are ya from?

[Ron Bontz]

Hi Shawn and welcome. I haven't tried the 2060 or 2030 tools. I have a few Pro PM from Crown I like. I bought them only because Thompson doesn't offer them. But I have been very happy with Thompson's tools. His service is great and he is always willing to answer questions. Yes, my friend, hold on to your seat. A real person who actually knows what he is talking about. Ultimately preference comes into play on such things. Best of luck to you. By the way, could some body please throw me a life vest? The vortex is sucking me down again. Flat work to do and walnut blanks staring at me. It's worse than the geico commercial.

[Barry Elder]

I agree with Ralph, although I bought my gouge from the late owner prior to D-way taking over. I presume they still produce the same quality tools.

[Reed Gray]

I have tried a number of the "edge lasts 5 times longer" gouges. I prefer the Thompson. One reason, that is important to me is that you buy direct from the guy who makes them. I also like to make my own handles, and prefer straight wood cylinder with no bumps or humps. My hand positions change a lot depending on what and how I am cutting. Without exception, the edges do last longer than HSS. The thing is, there is no substitute for a freshly sharpened gouge for the finish cut. The tool keeps that 'fresh' edge for a few seconds. It still stays sharp enough to do a lot of roughing before you need to head back to the grinder. None of them seem to keep the fresh edge much longer than others, at least not to the extent that I can notice.

robo hippy

[Shawn P. Smith]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm from Denver, CO.

I appreciate everyones input. To Reed's point about having a sharp tool for the finishing cuts, has anyone noticed that M2 hones to a sharper edge than the powdered metal alloys? Some people feel 01 metal gets sharper and gives a better cut than A2 metal in chisels. I was wondering if the same issue applies to the turning tool metals?

[Gordon Seto]

Just to further cloud the issue, there is M42. Which also has a high wear factor and is not as brittle as some. If you read the metallurgy specs and verbiage for all of these alloys, and read all the opinions (which I have, and understand) you quickly realize it's mostly a matter of opinion. For most of us, we couldn't tell the difference with any of these tools. I have M42 tools and ASP 2030, and I can't tell which one is better. I suspect the same would be true if I had 2060 or 10V tools To my knowledge, D-Way tools is the only supplier that uses M42. What I like about D-Way is Dave supplies the tools sharp and completely polished and honed (including the flute)

According to this tool steel selection chart:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/esele...edchemtbl.html
M42 has very high "red hardness" which is desirable in metal cutting, not useful in wood turning. The most important factor for turners is wear resistance. It is only slightly better than M2, the common high speed steel. M42 has half of the toughness of M2, that means it is more brittle.
But in the following chart:
http://www.crucibleservice.com/PDFs/...Vv1%202010.pdf
CPM 10V has 3 times the wear resistance, the same toughness of M2.

I don't know much about metallurgy. Crucibles didn't put all the steels in the same chart, by comparing both steels to a common HSS, the A-11 has 2 to 3 times the wear resistance of M42 without sacrificing the toughness.

I believe A-11 has the characteristics that woodturners want.

[Doug Thompson]

Some people feel 01 metal gets sharper and gives a better cut than A2 metal in chisels. I was wondering if the same issue applies to the turning tool metals?

The hand plane cuts a couple hundred feet before it's resharpened but in woodturning we do miles before the tool is sharpened. Wear resistance is needed over sharpeness.

[Ralph Lindberg]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm from Denver, CO.

I appreciate everyones input. To Reed's point about having a sharp tool for the finishing cuts, has anyone noticed that M2 hones to a sharper edge than the powdered metal alloys? Some people feel 01 metal gets sharper and gives a better cut than A2 metal in chisels. I was wondering if the same issue applies to the turning tool metals?

Actually M2 does not hone to a sharper edge then 2030/2060/10V/etc. Any more then O1 does.

What is true is the M2 is easier to hone to a razor edge then say 2060. The same is true for O1 vrs A2.

You might also want to read Alan Lacer's article on tool sharpening in the AAW publication a couple of years ago.

[Gordon Seto]

In addition to that, we baby our hand plane blades. We pride taking paper thin shavings off hand plane. We never use our good plane blade on timber with bark or dirt.

Turners are different animal. We do natural edge with rough bark & dirt, taking as thick a shaving as our high horse power lathes can handle without stalling.

[Shawn P. Smith]

Thanks everyone. I'm going to order Thompson tools for the bowl, spindle, and detail gouges. I appreciate everyones help!

[Shawn P. Smith]

You might also want to read Alan Lacer's article on tool sharpening in the AAW publication a couple of years ago.

Ralph - I checked out Alan's website and the sharpening articles are very helpful. He also has an interesting article on tool steels. Thanks.