May be hope for "Made in the USA"

[John Coloccia]

There's still plenty that's made in the US. Practically all of my handtools are made in the US or Canada. Some chisels and rasps/files come from Japan. Some blades, chisels and planes come from Germany and Switzerland.

Now when you get out of home and consumer tools and get into real labs and real companies, you'll find that a LOT of equipment is manufactured right here in the USA. For a lot of the equipment I've used over the years, I can pick up the phone and talk to the guy who assembled and calibrated it if I had to.

As much as I'd love to be able to buy a quality, made in the USA, drill press, I'd rather have that worker making a $50,000 piece of test equipment or something like that. Wars won't be won or lost because all our table saw trunion molds are in China. They will be won or lost if we forget how to make rockets or how to send people into space, for example. We've already completely lost our ability to go to the moon. I hate to lose craftmanship, but it would be suicide to lose basic know-how. I think we're retaining that for the most part, but there are certainly some chinks in our armor.

Hey, the Chinese, Indians and Mexicans have to make a living too. It's not their fault our companies spec out junk. If we gave them good specs, we'd get good products. SawStop is a perfect example. Top notch through and through...made in Asia to top notch specs.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will find myself taking a stand that more than one person will find unbelievable. (Matt)

THE PROBLEM IS NOT JUST LABOR COSTS. PERIOD.

It is more stringent environmental standards...its taxes at the local, state and federal level.....higher profit demanded by Wall Street and the shareholders, .....and other issues I'm sure I don't realize.

And this is where it becomes nearly political.

If you don't believe it, look at industries in this country that have moved and stayed within the country. Companies have built new factories in states where they didn't have a historical presence. Why? Lower taxes....lower cost of labor......different environmental standards which were easier to meet.

Of course...labor is going say it's not us......environmentalists are going to say ...it's not us.......government officials are going to say ...it's not us.....

Guess who is not getting the jobs....."it's not us".....

and any time anyone of these principles create an increase in their portion of the cost of producing a product without a responsible savings or reasonable customer acceptable increase in price to offset the increased cost of production...it's an irresponsible selfish, greedy act by that participant.....labor, government, shareholders, environmentalists....they are all involved......all have acted irresponsibly......selfishly....greedily..

When it becomes less profitable to manufacture products overseas the manufacturing jobs will return.

[John Carlo]

The test score game is impacting all electives. I taught shop classes in addition to computer classes. After shop was eliminated, they turned my computer classes into research writing classes so that all students proficient on the MEAP (Michigan Standardized) test could have a second language arts class. They had already required a second LA class for those who were not proficient.
So, not just our beloved shop and drafting classes are gone. Now it is common to see students unable to take band, choir, art, gym, and even computer and tech classes.
However, we will have "No Child Left Behind"! And all kids will grow up to be doctors, lawyers, or rocket scientists. Very bored uninteresting ones at that!

[Joel Goodman]

I bought a made-in-USA 6" Swanson combo square from the blue borg a while ago. The little metal L-shaped thing on the end of the screw that holds the blade in place broke. I found a phone # and called. Talked to a lady who knew immediately what I was talking about and "the mail left for today but I'll send one out tomorrow." 3 days later, here it is and it now appears to be brass. What a pleasant experience. Granted it would have been nice if it didn't break in the first place but stuff does happen. The dollar being weak sucks from some angles but it does help make made-in-USA products competitive on the world market.

I've had that experience with Chapman who make a nice set of "gunsmith's screwdrivers", that is screwdrivers that come in a multiple thicknesses etc so they actually fit the slot exactly. They make them in the USA and shipped me a few of the setscrew that I lost, immediately and for free. Lie Nielsen of course does the same.

[Pat Barry]

I don't think they could convert any car part factory to do that either. Lets face it, kids don't have much interest in shop class anymore. Sure there are some exceptions but thats not where the kids interest is. Money is made in software these days. We better keep up in that. If there were factories coiming back, then they would train the new workers anyway and their high school training would be worthless.

[Dave Lehnert]

I don't think they could convert any car part factory to do that either. Lets face it, kids don't have much interest in shop class anymore. Sure there are some exceptions but thats not where the kids interest is. Money is made in software these days. We better keep up in that. If there were factories coiming back, then they would train the new workers anyway and their high school training would be worthless.

The kids may not be interested in it because they had no exposure to it?

Would I be doing woodworking now if I did not have high school wood shop? I can't answer that.

[Rick Markham]

Dave, I didn't take a high school shop class, and I'm into it. (I don't qualify as a kid anymore though, I'm 34) I also am interested in becoming a machinist, not for a trade, but for personal use. However, I think that exposure to shop etc, would certainly increase the interest level

[Dan Karachio]

Not the best read out there, but there is a book, "Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry Into the Value of Work" where the author (a PhD who chucked white collar/academic work to repair motor cycles), makes some great arguments about why we developed negative (but false) attitudes about manual work, how white collar work can be as demeaning as the most oppressive factory job and how manual work can in fact bring more satisfaction and independence.

http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Sou.../dp/1594202230
Quite honestly, I never finished it. Way too much rambling and tangents (needs an editor). However, some great snippets and nuggets, especially about how and why so many managers veer away from any kind of decision making.

[Paul Johnstone]

Said that the cost of labor overseas has gone way up because workers are staying on the farms to work rather than come to the city to work in the factories.

Maybe there's a benefit to all these ethanol subsidies that are driving up food prices after all. (As farmers turn corn into ethanol, instead of food, due to governement subsidies).

That and the weakened dollar nowdays.

[Paul Johnstone]

I don't see how it will ever come back, there will be no one to do it. We don't have shop classes in school any more so how is someone to learn the basics.

If coorporations think it is beneficial to manufacture here, they will come back.

Someone had to train all those people in China how to use the machinery too. It's not a big deal.

[Dave Lehnert]

Not the best read out there, but there is a book, "Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry Into the Value of Work" where the author (a PhD who chucked white collar/academic work to repair motor cycles), makes some great arguments about why we developed negative (but false) attitudes about manual work, how white collar work can be as demeaning as the most oppressive factory job and how manual work can in fact bring more satisfaction and independence.

http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Class-Sou.../dp/1594202230
Quite honestly, I never finished it. Way too much rambling and tangents (needs an editor). However, some great snippets and nuggets, especially about how and why so many managers veer away from any kind of decision making.

Reminded me of of an interview of a Highwire walker in a circus.
The interviewer asked "Are you crazy to do that for a living" Her response was. You get up every day, put on expensive clothing to go sit at a desk 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, 52 weeks a year. only to have a boss scream at you for not getting more done. Drive home in an hour of traffic.
I work 20 min a day and make twice what you do. And you call me crazy?

[Mr. Jeff Smith]

Great read of a thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed. I'm grateful to know that people besides myself are thinking about these issues.

[Van Huskey]

The bottom line for a majority of Americans is the simple price/quality balance. Asia has developed into a place where the price/quality equation makes sense for most woodworkers for machines and will remain that way until a NA company can attack it.

One question I have is even if someone decided to build NA machines where would the castings come from? Does Northfield get their castings from NA, how about General? I don't know just asking, there are not many CI casting outfits left here and I wonder if it would be cost effective to restart them...

[michael case]

For a thread that was threatened with execution from the get go this sure has had a long life!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Let's get off the subject of war. It is too political and doesn't belong at this website per the TOSs.

Please.