MM16 or Agazzani B-18 or hammer N4400 or Jet 18

[Joe Kurtz]

Here are my choices...(money matters)

MM16 -- highest price
Agazzanni B-18 $400 less
Hammer n4400 $500 less then B-18
Jet 18" 3hp -- $500 less than the Hammer

I am not going to do huge resawing (but perhaps in the future), but I am buying this bandsaw as to replace all the ripping of stock i was doing on my tablesaw (which i no longer have). My question is to get as close to table saw likeness as possible do i have to spend the money on the MM16 or could I get just as good of rips etc. on the hammer for almost 1k less.

Or...was i dumb to sell my powermatic 10" artisan saw for an awesome bandsaw

BTW, thanks for letting me join the forum. Just became a member today

[Brian Kent]

I look forward to the responses.

I have none of these machines, but I anticipate a question:
Do you have a jointer to clean up the rip edges?

Brian

[Joe Kurtz]

i don't have a jointer. When gluing up panels my TS cut was sufficient. This is what i am afraid of now over my decision to sell the TS and thinking i could get a sweet BS to replace it. The one time I handplaned edges I was somewhat succesful but not fully. I am hoping I was not wrong in my thinking that a BS around 2k could get me TS like rips or very close.

I will be interested in replies as well. And thank you for the welcome.

[Mac Cambra]

I don't think you will be satisfied with the rip quality relative to what you are probably used to on the table saw. The band saw will not produce "glue line rips". You'll need a jointer or a jointer handplane to clean the edges up.

I own the MM16, it is a great saw. I will say the 3HP Jet saw was my second choice at the time. I am not sure the Jet would be my second now, I am a fan of the Italian saws now and I would have to look at the Agazzani or Laguna.

Hope this helps, in that I can assure you that you won't be disappointed by your high end choice.

[Josh Rudolph]

MM16 -- highest price
Agazzanni B-18 $400 less
Hammer n4400 $500 less then B-18
Jet 18" 3hp -- $500 less than the Hammer

Joe,

Welcome to the forum...it is a great place where a lot of good info can be found.

I went through my Bandsaw decision process a little over 2 years ago. I looked at the then offerings of MM, Agazzani, Laguna, Powermatic and Jet. Did not look at the Hammer. I think they were the same models you mention...it was longer than yesterday when I did it, so I forgot.
I ended up with a Grizzly G0513x2.
I couldn't justify the higher price for the MM, Ag, Powermatic or Laguna to myself. There were also some grumblings at the time with Lagina's CS. I truly did not feel that the Jet was any better than the Grizzly.

I use this bandsaw quite a bit now. I use mine for rough ripping like you are planning (it is not my goto for ripping though...I still have my TS), I have done quite a bit of resawing with it and have zero regrets. I believe it is one of the best built machines that Grizzly puts out. They have a specific model that is meant to compete with the saws you listed...G0636X. I have heard it is a great saw also.

Personally, I don't believe you can get a glue line rip off of a BS, but I am not saying it is impossible. I have a carbide tipped blade from Laguna, but have not tried it out yet. It may be the ticket. A quick swipe or two with a handplane would likely have you ready for glue.

With that said...I believe a BS is a relatively simple machine that is petty easy to maintain. For me and my decision process, I just couldn't see spending more for the other bands.

Don't know that I helped you any, just wanted to throw the Grizzly saw into the mix since you said money is a factor.

Good luck with your decision,
Josh

[Brian Kent]

I have the same Grizzly (513X2) and I'm very happy with it. If I had no table saw, I would need to use my jointer or a jointer plane.

[Joel Goodman]

+1 on no "glue line" rips. That is not really doable on a bandsaw. Where is the Hammer made?

[Philip Johnson]

I have a MM24 with carbide blade and I can not see how it would ever replace a table saw.

Phil

[Eiji Fuller]

I dont know how one could really do woodworking without a jointer. I buy and store all my lumber in the rough and surface it as I need it. If I buy too much or too early I know it will be ready when I need it. Buying s3s or s4s has never pleased me. The S3S or S4S stock is never really flat to begin with and forget about it if you have to store it for a while.

Get a good jointer and you'll be alright.

I recently picked up a Felder FB540 21" bandsaw and that is about the smallest I would go if you plan on running carbide blades. A carbide blade is a must IMO if you want a super clean cut. I also do most of my ripping operations on the bandsaw but wouldn't do without the jointer or my Tablesaw for that matter.

[Joseph Klosek]

I have the 20" Mini Max and it has been a good saw for the past 6 years.

I mainly use it for resawing and ripping thick stock. Otherwise it is a handsaw.

I also surface,thickness and joint all lumber by hand as well.

You certainly wont go wrong with the Mini Max and the 16" resaw capacity will most likely come in handy some day. I can't really comment on the others as I have not used them. The only other saws I have used were mammoth Fay and Eagans and Crescent tools.

Have you looked for used saws?

J.P.

[Greg Roberts]

Quick comments, sorry I don't have time to elaborate.

I ended up getting a Laguna LT18HD, made in Italy. Not as feature-rich as some others, but a very solid machine. Laguna CS has been good. I thought when I got the machine it would be larger than I really needed, but that's not the case. It ends up being the smallest I would have wanted. It's actually just right for me, but I'm glad I didn't go with a 16" or smaller saw. A 20" would have been great.

The MM looks really nice, but the 16" was not big enough for me, and the 20" was too expensive for me.

If you're going to look at the Grizzly machines, which I think look very nice for the money, you should also consider the Laguna LT18/3000 series. Asian manufacture, but it really looks like a nice machine to me, and it is the right size and full of features, including the Laguna guides. Heavy machine too.

Greg

[Mike Archambeau]

I have the MM16. Like you I try to do as much cutting on the BS as possible. I use a carbide tipped blade. It cuts fast and the kerf is very thin compared to the TS. I do have a nice jointer so I am pleased with what the bandsaw contributes.

I do have a Festool TS55 track saw for cutting sheet goods. Cut quality is very high and safety is fantastic.

If you are creative and resourceful you can find many ways to produce the cuts you want without using a tablesaw. But as others have already pointed out, you will need to refine the cut coming off the bandsaw for glue ups.

[Joe Kurtz]

I have the MM16. Like you I try to do as much cutting on the BS as possible.

I do have a Festool TS55 track saw for cutting sheet goods. Cut quality is very high and safety is fantastic.

This is the workflow I am hoping to go with the TS55 for sheet goods.
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Greg, it is interesting you would not go smaller than 18". That makes me think the used 20" laguna I was looking at wouldn't be too BIG, like I initially thought.
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Fuller, it looks like a power jointer will be in the works for the near future. Unless, I get really good with a handplaner. Up until just recently I have been just a hobbyist, but I am obviously hoping to do more.
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I am definitely regretting selling my tablesaw. I regretted it as the guy was loading it into his truck. But since I am not in fast "production" mode right now, I suppose I can always come back to the TS should I feel I need one.

Thank you all very much for the comments. I was somehow hoping there would be more of you saying, "oh yeah, for sure I use my bandsaw for everything...perfect cuts." but that was a little niave at this point.

I am sure it will work out and I will be sure to post pics of the dining table I am making which is what caused me to get into looking at Bandsaws in the first place....for all the tenons and slight curves. So far in the project I have needed a BS a LOT more than my TS and my project is on hold until I get my BS in the shop.

[Scot Ferraro]

Hi Joe,

I voted for the Hammer -- a very well made saw at a good price and similar to many of the other brands made by ACM. Regardless of brand, I would seriously look at changing the guides to a ceramic system or Carter ball bearings -- this is the single biggest thing I did to improve cuts on my 9 year old Laguna 18 inch. With a Resaw King blade I get glue-ready cuts or cuts that are very, very close to glue ready and a swipe of a plane would make the edges perfect. I agree that a jointer and planer are a must to get the most out of a bandsaw. The second thing you can do on any saw is get a DriftMaster fence -- this thing is amazing and worth the price -- being able to adjust for drift quickly and easily for any blade change is a joy and a big time saver. Others have indicated that they have never had to adjust for drift on some of the bigger machines -- that has never been case for me -- most of the time I need to in order to get perfect cuts. I think that the biggest bandsaw you can afford is the way to go...if I had to do things again I would opt for a 24 inch. Throat capacity is the limiting factor - on a 24 inch machine you can get 23 inches or so to the left of the blade. My saw only has 12 inches of resaw (actually about 12 1/2 with the Laguna Guides) and this has been plenty for me. I have a tracksaw too and I have been deabating the need for a TS too -- it is convenient and I really like mine, but it is a space hog and I have been finding the most cuts can be done with the BS and tracksaw combination. I would miss the dado capability, though and it is more efficient than setting up a tracksaw for different cuts which is why I have kept it. BTW, if you are looking for a jointer, consider a combination machine -- smaller footprint and more capacity, especially in planing mode - this allows you to stand work on edge for perfect parallel edges (helpful if your BS cuts are not perfect).

Scot

[ian maybury]

Hi Joe. I'm just recently out of your situation, and still don't know if I made the right decision. (I'm still searching for a used rotary converter) I bought an almost new used 24in Agazzani - basically because I got an excellent deal on it, but I was also very happy to go with it because of its excellent reputation here. (I had thought one would be out of my budget)

Please excuse the pernicketyness, but I'm actually reluctant to vote in your poll for the reasons I've set out before while grouching about the lack of hard information (from the makers, the mags etc) on where the various band saws fit into the scheme of things.

The saws you have listed are to me examples from within quite different categories/target applications/price points, and hence are not easily compared in simple good/bad terms. User feedback tends to be blurry too for similar reasons - very few get to test multiple saws in practice, and needs vary widely. What I have to say is subject to the same limitations too, and is based mostly on my take on what's in print.

The 'what do you want it for?' question looms large.

The MM16 is an example of the recent variety of heavy saws focused on deep re-sawing with a heavy frame and big vertical capacity. As well as seeming to be an excellent saw it's price may reflect its reputation - not to mention the maker finding a win/win way to get a premium price for a 16in saw.

The Agazzani is arguably a slightly more highly specified saw in some ways, but while the B models apparently do well on deep re-sawing too they don't have that extra vertical capacity. (7.5in for the 18in?) They are quite lightly powered too.

Agazzani have just brought out a line of re-saw focused saws too. This has to be partly about covering the MM and Grizzly re-saw models, I don't know if they offer any real performance advantage over their larger model stock saw with the same vertical capacity. There don't seem to be complaints about regarding the re-saw capability of the bigger B models anyway, although the 18 in may be another matter.

Grizzly have a model in the 16in re-saw focused space too in the GO 636X (plus a larger model too), it seem to be getting good press as a very real improvement over their stock models and as being the equal of pretty much anything out there. There's not that many around yet, I found it tough to find direct user feedback on them.

There's a couple (?) of other US sellers doing variants of the Europac Taiwanese saws which seem to be pretty good, but Grizzly may be the only one (?) with a re-saw focused version.

The Hammer seems likely to be largely an ACM 'Jolly 45' lighter duty saw, and as such might be seen to be a bit of a step down from the above. On the other hand its packing a lot more motor at 4HP (here anyway) than the ACM, and within its dimensional limits reputedly performs very well on re-sawing as well as general work. It's very well priced indeed.

The Jet seems to be a decent saw, but seems also to be more in the category of a cheaper and more general older style lighter duty saw. Don't know about the model, but you hear the odd person grouching about their saws having definite limits on re-saw capability.

So your list includes:

1. A premium priced high powered deep vertical capacity deep re-saw bandsaw.
2. A top quality but more general duty bandsaw with reduced vertical capacity, but probably decent re-saw capability within that limit.
3. A priced to sell Eastern bandsaw.
4. A spoiler in the form of a lighter duty Italian much like the above, but packing lots of motor in what seems to be a very good performing saw.

Back to the guys.

ian