First Plane Help

[Casey Futral]

hey folks,
First post here. I am interested in getting into old school woodworking. I have very little experience, built a climbing wall on my house and decks on my parent's house as well as mine. But I would like to get into finer wood work. I have a decent set of general contacting type tools. But I am looking to buy my first hand plane. From what I have read I understand that a Stanley #4, #5, and a low angle block plane are a pretty good starting point. The block plane I will buy from Lie-Nielson as it is not too expensive. But as for a first bench plane would a 4 or 5 serve me better? I plan to buy a used Stanley. i was thinking of using the original blade as practice on sharpening and buy a Hock blade as a replacement. Is this a good idea? Also I was looking at the Hock plane kit. What type of plane is it? It seems like a good beginning project. By the way my first builds will most likely be saw bench/horses and a works table.
Thanks,
casey

[Charles Wiggins]

Casey,

I am somewhat in the same situation and I chose to buy Christopher Schwarz Handplane Essentials and his Handplane Basics DVD. I highly recommend getting both of these. He really breaks things down into digestible portions. If you can only afford one, I'd start with the DVD - it's a very quick introduction to the basic concepts.

Based on what I have learned so far I would say that which plan you should buy first all depends on what you want the plane to do well. Bench planes basically do three things - remove material rapidly, straighten the work, and smooth the work. A plane is generally set up to do one of those three things well and consequently, does not do the other two as well.

#1 - #4 range are generally set up for smoothing, #5 - #6 are generally set up for removing material rapidly, and #7 - #8 are generally set up for straightening the work (joining).

[Michael Faurot]

But I am looking to buy my first hand plane.

I'll second the suggestion made by Charles--get the books and DVDs he mentions from Christopher Schwarz. They will explain a lot. I only wish Christopher Schwarz' books and DVDs had been around when I started learning.

From what I have read I understand that a Stanley #4, #5, and a low angle block plane are a pretty good starting point.
[...]
But as for a first bench plane would a 4 or 5 serve me better? I plan to buy a used Stanley.

Assuming you're going to be doing stuff similar to what Christopher Schwarz writes about, there's three planes you need to start with:

1. A fore plane. This could be a #5 or #6 sized bench plane.
2. A jointer/try plane. This could be a #7 or #8 sized bench plane.
3. A smoother. This could be either #3 or #4 sized bench plane.

i was thinking of using the original blade as practice on sharpening and buy a Hock blade as a replacement. Is this a good idea?

Yes, Hock blades are better than what comes stock with vintage Stanley planes. Is it a good idea? I guess that depends on how much your time is worth. On the one hand, you'll probably spend +/-$50 for a vintage Stanley, perhaps you'll also need to put in several hours to get it tuned up right. Then later on you'll spend another +/-$50 for a Hock blade. If you put a dollar figure on your time of say another $50, you're probably somewhere in the $150 range for each plane. For another $50-$100 you could buy a new plane from Veritas, and the only thing you'd have to do with it is hone the blade.

Either approach is valid. If you go with vintage Stanley tools, you'll learn a bit about the tools in the process of getting them working. But you may spend more time, initially, tinkering with the tools than woodworking. If you go with new tools from either Veritas or Lie-Nielsen you may spend a few more dollars, than you would for a vintage tool--but those tools are pretty much ready to go to work out of the box. So with new tools you can get to work learning how to use them to do woodworking quicker and typically with fewer frustrations.

Also I was looking at the Hock plane kit. What type of plane is it? It seems like a good beginning project.

As I understand it, Hock has two kits. One is for a shoulder plane, which you won't really need right away. The other is for a plane that is about the size of a jack. Building a wood plane like this is a good learning experience and when you're done you'll have a working tool.

[Mark Baldwin III]

The DVD that got me started was Jim Kingshott's hand plane video. I haven't seen Chris's video yet. I have built both a Hock jack plane and shoulder plane kit. Both are very educational. I've rehabbed a Stanley block plane, and a #3. Also got a new Stanley #5 jack plane. They each required a different amount of fettling to get them right. For me to learn how to use a plane required learning the actual mechanics of it. Hence the building and the rehabbing. It could be different for you.
For sharpening, I have recently become a fan of the scary sharp method. I have a nice waterstone as well. I like to use a honing guide (veritas makes killer guides).
I haven't used a Veritas jack plane yet, but I have some of their specialty planes. They are high quality and you won't be disappointed.
I like to tinker, so tearing into a medium quality tool to improve it is fun for me. If you want to open the box, put a final hone on a blade and start cutting, then LV is the way to go.
BTW...if you get the Hock kits, they are a great way to learn how to make your own from scratch. Hock irons are super high quality too!
(i'm a noob...and my opinion should probably be taken with grain of salt )

[Tom Vanzant]

I have re-habbed a number of Stanley and Bedrock planes and thought I had done a decent job..... then I got to run three of Ron Brese's planes on some curly cherry with really sharp irons.
Need I say more?
Talk about a slippery slope.

[Jim Koepke]

Casey,

Welcome to the Creek and the slope.

Everyone has a different opinion. Mine is that you would be doing yourself good to pick up an old Stanley/Bailey #5. Look into the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs to see what to look for, tips on tuning and using a plane to help you get started. My opinion is that doing this will help you a lot in the future when something isn't going right on a plane to know what to do to make it right.

Getting a plane that is good to go right out of the box is one thing, but if the lateral adjuster is off and you are not familiar with what a lateral adjuster does, it can be frustrating.

My recommendation is for a #5 because the first thing you mention building is saw benches and horses. The #5 will be good for shooting the end grain and smoothing the stock for such a project.

To build a work bench, a #5 might be a little small for the joinery involved in building a top if you are thinking of laminating strips of wood for such. A #7 or #8 might be better suited for such work.

Good luck,

jtk

[Bryan Wuest]

Casey,
Welcome to the Creek! Fellow Creeker from San Antonio, Michael Farout, makes some valid points both about the size planes you need and about the investment of time over money. To me, I like to tinker more than I like to spend money so when I started, I went to eBay and picked up both a #4 and #5. Both of which were in pretty decent shape. I hope it is ok to say this because there is no advertisements of any kind on my website but if you'll click on my user name there is a link to my page. At the bottom of my normal woodworking page is a link to my hand tools page. There you can see what about one hour's total time did to get these planes in great shape. Perhaps I was lucky but I haven't had a moment's problem with either of them in the last 3.5 years. Unlike Tom Vanzant, I haven't had the opportunity to run an extremely good plane so mine might be junk and I just don't know it.
Bryan

[Roy Lindberry]

hey folks,
First post here. I am interested in getting into old school woodworking. I have very little experience, built a climbing wall on my house and decks on my parent's house as well as mine. But I would like to get into finer wood work. I have a decent set of general contacting type tools. But I am looking to buy my first hand plane. From what I have read I understand that a Stanley #4, #5, and a low angle block plane are a pretty good starting point. The block plane I will buy from Lie-Nielson as it is not too expensive. But as for a first bench plane would a 4 or 5 serve me better? I plan to buy a used Stanley. i was thinking of using the original blade as practice on sharpening and buy a Hock blade as a replacement. Is this a good idea? Also I was looking at the Hock plane kit. What type of plane is it? It seems like a good beginning project. By the way my first builds will most likely be saw bench/horses and a works table.
Thanks,
casey

I say go with the #5. It is called a jack plane for a good reason - it is the "jack of all trades" plane, and it is very aptly named. It is not too bulky to use on a shooting board, yet it is long enough to be used as a jointer if necessary. It can be set to take a very thin shaving or a heavier cut.

It is not necessarily the best at any given task, but it has a wide range of uses. Up until this week, when my dad bought me a Lie-Nielsen low angle jack plane, my Stanley #5 was my go-to plane. If I was to only have one plane besides a block plane, it would be a jack.

Of course, once you start down this slippery slope, it won't be long before you have a #4 and then a #3 and then....

[Prashun Patel]

Lots of excellent info here from men way better than myself. Here's my 2cents, though:

Get a #4 that's in reasonably good condition and immediately buy a Hock or replacement blade.

All of the used planes I bought had blades that required a lot of work to rehab. Having no target in mind, I spent months thinking that I had achieved sharpness and that my planes were underperforming because of the other componentry. The single most important item is the blade, and starting with a new one that's pre-honed will let you know what to shoot for.

[jamie shard]

By the way my first builds will most likely be saw bench/horses and a works table.

My suggestion would be to:

1a) buy either a LV or LN bevel up low angle jack plane

1b) sharpen the blade as best you can and practice planing everything in sight -- for fun, fun, fun!

2a) build a shooting board

2b) learn to get that plane blade so sharp it does end grain shavings on all of your rough cuts for your saw bench/work table

3a) sharpen the plane blade to a higher angle with slight camber

3b) use your jack plane as a smoother on your saw bench/work table

4a) realize you are now on the slippery slope and cannot live without a dedicated smoothing plane, shooting plane, etc. etc.

4b) with each new plane purchase, return to 4a.




-jamie

[Andrae Covington]

You wanted too many opinions, right? I think I basically agree with all the advice given, but mostly concur with those who say get the #5 before the #4, if you're not going to buy both at the same time. I would start with the block plane though. A Lie-Nielsen plane will be practically ready to go out of the box, which will allow you to focus on the skills of using the plane. Any older plane will require some work to set up (some more than others).

I haven't seen the newer Handplane Basics DVD by Chris Schwarz but I have some of his older DVD's and I think they're instructive, along with the Handplane Essentials book. I also have Jim Kingshott's videos and those are good as well.

[Jerome Hanby]

Kind of a side question. I looked on the hock site at their shoulder plane kit. Is it just the weird perspective of the picture or is the blade skewed? I've never seen a shoulder plane with a skewed blade and was curious...

[Casey Futral]

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like i will be getting a #5. I have been looking on ebay, I only plan to spend around $50 plus around the same for the Hock blade. If anyone can put me in the direction of a good plane that would be great, as well as any more opinions or advice.

Also, as far as new Stanley planes, I have heard a lot of negative. Is it just the blades and if the are replaced would I have a decent plane or is it the overall quality?

Oh, and as far as the slippery slope, between backpacking/rock climbing, guitars and photography I have slipped down a few slopes.

casey

[Bryan Wuest]

Casey,
If you're not all fired up to get that plane "today" and don't mind waiting about 3-4 weeks, I'll send you a descent #5 for 50.00 and I'll even throw in a block plane. Notice I said descent, not perfect. I'm in Korea now but I fly back to San Antonio on the 23rd of November. I haven't touched my tools in the year I've been gone so I don't rightly remember what all I have but it won't be junk. I have two #5s that I've never touched because I got them right before I left. I don't mind cleaning and sharpening, in fact, I love cleaning and sharpening. But, it you want to learn how to do that yourself, I won't touch them. Just let me know via PM.

[Mark Baldwin III]

Kind of a side question. I looked on the hock site at their shoulder plane kit. Is it just the weird perspective of the picture or is the blade skewed? I've never seen a shoulder plane with a skewed blade and was curious...

The Hock kit isn't skewed. Clark and Williams make a skewed shoulder plane, however.