My Table

[Ryan Singer]

here's a preview of what I will be building next.. haven't decided the type of wood yet.. maybe Paduk, Walnut, quarter sawn white oak.. Hmm? cost is a big part of the decision

the concept is that both pieces rest on one another and support one another. one thing you will notice is that there is a slight illusion as you move around the table, from certain views, you only see one leg and the other end appears to defy gravity.. it's a sublime idea. trying to be a little sophisticated here

as far as joints, well, I have a couple ideas I want to maintain and that is to differentiate between horizontal and vertical planes. perhaps exposing the end grain of the vertical components will be enough, but it might pay to go the extra step and create a rabbet. one idea is to just create a big tenon out of ash that penetrates through the vertical support and then sand it flush

there it is.. clean, heavy duty and tricky... my style!

[Mark Singer]

Ry,

The drawings are a bit large to comprehend?

[Alan Turner]

Ryan,
A table from three "boards" certainly takes minimalist to near the limit. From your drawings, it seems that your legs are crossgrain to the top, and that might be a problem over time. Perhaps you had torsion boxes in mind. To me it is a cleaver idea, and for that reason alone it might be worth building, but it a bit stark for my taste. I may be a bit too Eighteenth Century in my design proclivities, however.
Alan

[Jim Becker]

I think that the offset legs are a very interesting design idea, Ryan. But do discuss the joinery a little more as the drawings give the impression that the legs pierce the top and I'm wondering if that is what you intended. Alan's comments about movement are also important, but I suspect that the grain direction may be misrepresented by the drawing program you were using.

Do try to keep your drawing files no wider than 700 pixels to avoid the "stretching" that many folks will experience viewing the thread. This may require you to crop the raster output from your drawing program to focus on what you intend to display...I know I need to do that with SketchUp! for best results for forum viewing.

[John Stevens]

Hi, Ryan. Not sure what you're asking here: whether we like the overall aesthetics of your design, or whether we like your ideas about construction and details?

If the former, I really like it. Minimalist & modern are my favorite styles, although I find such pieces boring if there isn't some feature, however small or subtle, that engages my curiosity. The through-M&T in your design does it for me, although the grain orientation is interesting, too. However, the through joint will have to be nearly perfect, and it'll have to stay that way throughout the seasons and over the years. Any gap between the edges of the legs and top, however small, will trap dust--and a dust-line on a minimalist piece will attract the eye immediately and really detract from the clean look of the piece.

If you're asking for comments on construction options, Alan's on the right track about wood movement, assuming you use solid wood. Also, even if you orient the leg grain vertically, you're not going to have much gluing surface in light of the mass of the table and the racking forces the legs will be exposed to. Orienting the leg grain vertically and cutting the top end of the leg into a number of smaller tenons whose cheeks run parallel to the length of the table top would help with that problem and perhaps create more visual interest, especially if you use a variation of the Hambidge progression to vary the width and spacing from the center to the edges.

Torsion box construction looks like a good option for this piece, for several reasons. First, as Alan pointed out, it will eliminate problems regarding wood movement. Second, it will keep the piece heavy in appearance without the actual mass. You may not see weight as a problem, but my dining room table is a 2" slab of rosewood on a trestle base made from oak that is 2" to 4" thick (these are actual dimensions, not nominal 8/4 or 16/4 stock). It's heavy as hell, and a royal pain in the a-- to move, which we need to do more often than we'd anticipated. Third, if you use a torsion box, you can incorporate bracing into the frame of the table top and legs so it's not visible on the exterior underside. Finally, you can go with your original grain orientation if you use torsion box construction. Of course, you'll be faking the appearance of a solid leg passing through a solid table top, but sometimes appearance is what matters most.

[Dave Richards]

This what you're trying to show Ryan?

[Mark Singer]

Dave ,

There you go again....Helping!
Thanks,
Mark

This what you're trying to show Ryan?

[Dave Richards]

Mark, I can't help it. Do you think this is what Ryan has in mind?

[Dave Richards]

If I'm on the right track, Ryan, how about a tongue and groove mating and some sort of catches on the underside to lock the tables together? You could do long sliding dovetails and the table might be usable pulled apart a bit as in this drawing.

[John Stevens]

Thanks, Dave, now I get it. I thought the top was a single slab with each leg piercing through it sorta like a bridle joint or M&T joint.

[Tom LaRussa]

Do you think this is what Ryan has in mind?

I'm not sure.

Is each element supposed to be able to stand on its own as well as with its other half, or are the two halves each necessary to the other, as you showed it?

I shrank Ryan's pics a bit in hopes that would help, but I can't really see where the joints are, so it's still a bit of a puzzle.

[Dave Richards]

I'm not sure I got it right. I was just guessing.

I didn't get the idea that both pieces would stand on their own. Only that they would be identical pieces and one end of each would be supported by the other's leg.

[Allen Grimes]

From what I understand from his description and the pictures is that there is no joints and they have to be together to support eachother. I looked at his site,which (btw, Mark you are an amazing architect) lead me to believe that there is more of a meaning to this than meets the eye. I get the feeling that he likes the idea of 2 seperate entities supporting eachother, maybe it's meant to symbolize love. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan.

[Mark Singer]

Allen,

Your probably correct he is really into women...we even used massive dovetails on his bed and Epoxy....he will give it a test when its complete. Now if he uses the table as a bed....who knows

From what I understand from his description and the pictures is that there is no joints and they have to be together to support eachother. I looked at his site,which (btw, Mark you are an amazing architect) lead me to believe that there is more of a meaning to this than meets the eye. I get the feeling that he likes the idea of 2 seperate entities supporting eachother, maybe it's meant to symbolize love. Correct me if I'm wrong, Ryan.

[Ryan Singer]

Hi guys,

thanks for taking such interest in trying to understand my bad diagrams.. yes, they are a little too big, yes they don't show the proper grain direction. I will have to learn how to model grain direction correctly

thanks for helping and making those sketches. those are interesting because they look like there is a track or something in the middle edge. kinda fancy. maybe you could pull them apart. with my design you could actually slide them apart, but that is not the plan. also, about torsion boxes.. that's kinda of a good idea for this project if it were to be laminated. It could actually be interesting because you could change the direction of the grain however you want

for now I have a new diagram which hopefully shows more of what I am thinking. I foresee a problem with the cantilevered end and I am proposing to put some more tenons in the end. maybe not 3... but the idea is there

Maybe you can help me with the cantiliever idea. any suggestions on how many tenons? how big should they be?

one more bit of inspiration. what about the joke about the Rabbi who's design for an airplane wing that was inspired by Matzos? his reasoning behind it was that you could never break the Matzos along those perforated holes.. maybe I should look into making a bunch of holes to lighten it up and then laminating it all together