Who has a Baldor Grinder and where did you get it?

[John Stan]

Hi -
This thread is very timely as I am also shopping for a grinder. Can someone explain which is the preferred speed? 1800 RPM vice 3600 RPM? Are the benefits to one speed vice another?

Thanks,
-John

[george wilson]

As mentioned,the WHEEL itself can be out of balance. On precision machines,like quality surface grinders,provision is made for balancing the wheels before mounting.

It is excellent advice to rotate the wheel till it runs the smoothest. Those wheels are cast out of their materials,and may have somewhat different densities on different sides.

Another thing I like about my old flat front Craftsman grinders,is that they have"double jointed" tool rests: There are 2 arms in each rest,like your own arm. there is a straight part coming from the grinder. This connects to the actual rest itself at an "elbow". The rests can be extended way out from the grinder about 4". this enables me to catch a chisel at the tang with the extended rest. I can grind a carving tool,quench it,and replace it at exactly the same spot each time, catching it where the chisel flares out into the bolster,making a perfectly smooth bevel on the tool,which has no "facets" on it.

I need to take a picture to illustrate this.

Ever see a picture of an import grinder taken open? They can have a cavernous shell around a 2" dia. armature!!! The big shell makes the motor look big,but it is quite small in diameter. The old flat front Craftsmen grinders house only the true dia. of the guts of the motor. It gives you lots of room to grind things like draw knives,which would hit the swollen motor housings on round front grinder motors.

[Ed Looney]

I went to ebay and typed in baldor grinder and got 93 search results. This might be a good place to look.

Ed

[David Weaver]

The new ryobi grinder I have has that two-piece rest, and it even has hand-turnable adjustment screws. It just has an arbor that isn't straight.

I have seen a lot of old grinders run, and they're always smooth. I have not seen a lot of new grinders run, so i figured it must just be the quality now, but after searching bench grinder on youtube (I knew that would turn up a few videos of people selling stuff on ebay), it's clear that my grinder is not just imported, but defective.

I could probably be satisfied with an import grinder that's OK, but I ended up ordering a baldor 623E grinder.

As george says, the housing for the motor isn't huge and it has a two-piece rest. And, it's got a nice heavy casting.

I would kind of like to have gotten the 8100W (a half speed 8" grinder that would've been nice for rough grinding plane sides), but I couldn't find anyone who would ship it UPS freight for a reasonable cost without adding on ridiculous standardized fees, and about the cheapest it would be was $750 even though the "sale price" was $600 or so (it's 100 pounds, thus the shipping issue). Enco had the price padded enough to cover their free shipping offer, so it would've been at least as expensive. It costs about $80 to ship UPS freight to me, but everyone has a standard freight + liftgate fee, same as the add-on would be for much larger equipment, which is dumb.

The other good option, especially for grinding irons, was the Kalamazoo 2SK7 (7" grinder with 2x48 belt and a grinder rest for the belt), but I couldn't find the arbor diameter to confirm I could put my 6" wheels on it if the 7" wheel it came with was too fast at full speed.

[David Weaver]

I went to ebay and typed in baldor grinder and got 93 search results. This might be a good place to look.

Ed

There are a lot on there. It would be ideal if one showed up local pickup, but i couldn't find one. The seller who I bought from on the web lists on ebay, but they charge $20 more for their grinder on ebay

I think all of the low-price sellers are drop ship sellers, and probably the industrial supply houses are, too.

[David Weaver]

Hi -
This thread is very timely as I am also shopping for a grinder. Can someone explain which is the preferred speed? 1800 RPM vice 3600 RPM? Are the benefits to one speed vice another?

Thanks,
-John

I'm only repeating stuff I've read, 1800 for anything 8", and below that is personal preference. I've never used an 8" grinder since starting woodworking.

I like a full-speed (3600) 6" grinder for grinding chisels and plane irons for the reason I stated earlier - the deeper hollow. I get at least an extra hone out of a chisel off of my grinder vs. the tormek, and no water or screwing around clamping the chisel in, etc. I'm pretty sure I never stand at the grinder more than a minute including a quick dress of the wheel when it starts to look glazed.

I still would've probably taken a larger half-speed western-world grinder if I could've found one reasonable. I don't think a 6" grinder will crap out for most of the metal bits that most of us on here will make, though, and the benefit of the 6" grinder if you pay attention is that you can find decent gray wheels everywhere for cheap. I'm sure the debate will continue about whether you should buy a more expensive friable wheel. For me, the answer is no, but I have burnt tools twice in 4 years just playing around and I can see how people could do it by accident. I have never burnt a tool when grinding something where it mattered and I was trying to avoid burning them.

[Johnny Kleso]

Hi -
This thread is very timely as I am also shopping for a grinder. Can someone explain which is the preferred speed? 1800 RPM vice 3600 RPM? Are the benefits to one speed vice another?
Thanks,
-John

Hi John,

Grinding makes heat, the faster the wheel the more heat..
The slower the wheel the longer it takes to grind..
The larger the wheel the less raidus on your cutting edge, the more durable the edge is..

In a machine shop we use PI (Pie)=3.1416 and times it by the wheel diameter (6" x 3.1416= 16.8496) X (times) that by the RPMs of a grinder to find how many surface inches per minute past your tool..

6"dia. wheel x 3.1416= 16.8496 x 3600 rpm= 67858.56 sipm
6" @ 1750 would be about 1/2 the speed of 3600 rpm
8" @ 3600 = 90478.08 sipm
10" @ 1750 =54978 sipm


Some grinders have a hi-low switch but most times lack the tork of a single speed

[Derek Cohen]

Hi David

I thought I would comment as my approach appears to vary from yours.

Like you, I have a 10" Tormek. For years I used a 1/2 hp Ryobi 6" high speed grinder (which, in Australia, means that it spins at 2800 rpm). I have kept this little grinder for its portability when I need to demonstrate grinding at workshops.

The 6" set up (doncha love the "powerful" adjective that is applied to 1/2 hp?!) ...



A few years back I decided to upgrade the 6" machine to a 10" high speed to match the wheel circumference of the Tormek. I bought what might only be called a "cheapie" and added a white 46 grit wheel.

10" Grinder-from-Hell alongside the Tormek ...



Few machines have terrified me as much as this 10". Imagine the sound of a Dakota starting up, the engine growl getting louder and the ground below your feet beginning to tremble. Then, as it approaches top speed, the velocity of air rushes at you and pins you against the far wall .. as you attempt to escape the machine shakes violently .. angrily and walks across the bench towards for, trapping you forever ...

As George pointed out, you can generally re-balance grinders to minimise the vibration. In fact, I do this will all grinders anyway. However it was a lost cause with this particular Hell-Child. In the end I sold it to an engineer for the price of the white wheel. He thought it a wonderful machine. Strange man ...

Anyway I was still determined to get another dry grinder. Why? Because I wanted something that worked faster than the Tormek .... however where we differ in philosophy is that I wanted a machine to prepare the way for the Tormek. I still see the Tormek as the best grinder around for blades that you plane to freehand sharpen. The reason for this is (1) the Tormek's large diameter wheel leaves a flatter hollow and removes less of the metal that supports an edge. I generally hollow grind to the edge of the steel as this then require less metal to be removed when honing. A freshly ground A2 hollow requires 1 (max 2) strokes on a Shapton Pro 1000 to achieve a wire edge. I do not mind refreshing the hollow after 4 or 5 sharpenings as this takes a few minutes at most and you end up removing minimal amounts of steel overall.

I ended up with a 1 hp half-speed (1400 rpm) 8" grinder by Carba-tec. Now I am sure that you can get this one in the US - probably just re-badged - but would not bother given the high praise that the Baldors come in for. We don't get a Baldor her in Oz, otherwise I would have considered one. My philosophy is that you buy the best you can afford - "cry once ..". In fact I come in for stick from my wife when I consider something second best (when in a state of pre-purchase stress). At the same price I'd rather get a good used machine of my choice than a new second-rate machine. The Carba-tec was a pricey piece, about the same as you would pay for a Baldor (all machinery in Australia seems to cost about double what you would pay in the US).

Here is the 8" grinder set up with the Tormek BGM-100 tool rest (which makes it easy to go from the Tormek to the dry grinder and back) ...



Review of the set up: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ngNirvana.html

The 8" is a great machine. Minimal vibration - I have used a number of machines over the years and this one is up there with the best. The benefit from a machine with such little vibration is one you will really appreciate long after the pain of paying for it is past. The larger the machine, the more has to go in to reducing vibration. You are paying for a more powerful motor, better bearings, more solid construction ... these items cannot be improved later. The tool rest is not important in this context - you can always add a good one later.

Another point: I do not use the Tormek for turning chisels. I am always surprised by those that do if they also use HSS chisels. HSS does not react to heat, so grind them as fast as you like. Keep the Tormek for steel that can burn.

Speed counts when it comes to heat. I am led to understand that a 6" diameter wheel turns at approximately the same speed (at the circumference) as a 8" half-speed wheel. Wheel composition counts as well ... but all this is telling you how to suck eggs. The relevant factor for me is a flatter grind, and how to achieve this with the lowest heat.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Larry Williams]

David,

There's a new grinder on the market by General International. I'm sure it's made in China but it seems to be a pretty good grinder. You'll need to make some tool rests for it and ignore their belt width specification, use 2" wide belts instead of 1 3/4" belts. The platen for the belts could use a little modification as well. You'll have to get custom belts made for it but that's easy, we get them from EconAbrasives if you don't have a source.

It's less than half the cost of a Jet belt/grinder we bought years ago for more than twice the price. I had to make tool rests for that one and modify the platen as well.

http://www.general.ca/site_metal/m_produits/15-232.html

On edit,
We've only had one for less than two months so I haven't tried to get parts or anything.

[David Weaver]

Larry, I saw that one before I placed my order, and wondered, but didn't wonder too long once I saw the belt size. Since you vouched for it, I'll keep it in mind when I decide to buy a belt grinder.

I would assume I won't probably need parts at my usage level.

I do like the standalone 2x48" kalamazoo grinder a lot (2fsm). Do you know anything about it?

[David Weaver]

Hi David

I thought I would comment as my approach appears to vary from yours.

Like you, I have a 10" Tormek. For years I used a 1/2 hp Ryobi 6" high speed grinder (which, in Australia, means that it spins at 2800 rpm). I have kept this little grinder for its portability when I need to demonstrate grinding at workshops.

The 6" set up (doncha love the "powerful" adjective that is applied to 1/2 hp?!) ...



A few years back I decided to upgrade the 6" machine to a 10" high speed to match the wheel circumference of the Tormek. I bought what might only be called a "cheapie" and added a white 46 grit wheel.

10" Grinder-from-Hell alongside the Tormek ...



Few machines have terrified me as much as this 10". Imagine the sound of a Dakota starting up, the engine growl getting louder and the ground below your feet beginning to tremble. Then, as it approaches top speed, the velocity of air rushes at you and pins you against the far wall .. as you attempt to escape the machine shakes violently .. angrily and walks across the bench towards for, trapping you forever ...

As George pointed out, you can generally re-balance grinders to minimise the vibration. In fact, I do this will all grinders anyway. However it was a lost cause with this particular Hell-Child. In the end I sold it to an engineer for the price of the white wheel. He thought it a wonderful machine. Strange man ...

Anyway I was still determined to get another dry grinder. Why? Because I wanted something that worked faster than the Tormek .... however where we differ in philosophy is that I wanted a machine to prepare the way for the Tormek. I still see the Tormek as the best grinder around for blades that you plane to freehand sharpen. The reason for this is (1) the Tormek's large diameter wheel leaves a flatter hollow and removes less of the metal that supports an edge. I generally hollow grind to the edge of the steel as this then require less metal to be removed when honing. A freshly ground A2 hollow requires 1 (max 2) strokes on a Shapton Pro 1000 to achieve a wire edge. I do not mind refreshing the hollow after 4 or 5 sharpenings as this takes a few minutes at most and you end up removing minimal amounts of steel overall.

I ended up with a 1 hp half-speed (1400 rpm) 8" grinder by Carba-tec. Now I am sure that you can get this one in the US - probably just re-badged - but would not bother given the high praise that the Baldors come in for. We don't get a Baldor her in Oz, otherwise I would have considered one. My philosophy is that you buy the best you can afford - "cry once ..". In fact I come in for stick from my wife when I consider something second best (when in a state of pre-purchase stress). At the same price I'd rather get a good used machine of my choice than a new second-rate machine. The Carba-tec was a pricey piece, about the same as you would pay for a Baldor (all machinery in Australia seems to cost about double what you would pay in the US).

Here is the 8" grinder set up with the Tormek BGM-100 tool rest (which makes it easy to go from the Tormek to the dry grinder and back) ...



Review of the set up: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...ngNirvana.html

The 8" is a great machine. Minimal vibration - I have used a number of machines over the years and this one is up there with the best. The benefit from a machine with such little vibration is one you will really appreciate long after the pain of paying for it is past. The larger the machine, the more has to go in to reducing vibration. You are paying for a more powerful motor, better bearings, more solid construction ... these items cannot be improved later. The tool rest is not important in this context - you can always add a good one later.

Another point: I do not use the Tormek for turning chisels. I am always surprised by those that do if they also use HSS chisels. HSS does not react to heat, so grind them as fast as you like. Keep the Tormek for steel that can burn.

Speed counts when it comes to heat. I am led to understand that a 6" diameter wheel turns at approximately the same speed (at the circumference) as a 8" half-speed wheel. Wheel composition counts as well ... but all this is telling you how to suck eggs. The relevant factor for me is a flatter grind, and how to achieve this with the lowest heat.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek - was the carbatec really about $750 US? that's pricey!

The baldor 6" grinder with cast rests was about $300, but as you say, it's easier to make one work well than a big grinder. However, the rub about paying $100 to ship a machine and/or being required to be home to receive the machine truck freight is what kept me from getting the bigger 8" baldor. The cast 6" grinder weighs about what most 8" grinders weigh (hair under 50 pounds), and the amperage is similar to the cheap made in china grinders (a little over 3) with the exception of some of the brands like dewalt. I noticed when I got my ryobi grinder that the amperage was 2 or 2.1 and the 8" ryobi was 3, and a lot of the HF machines were somewhere in that ballpark (with very interesting horsepower quotes for that amperage).

I use the tormek only for two reasons on turning chisels:
1) I'm used to doing it
2) I don't turn in high volume, usually only tool handles and knobs. I've never caught the bug to turn and don't really like elements like turned legs, etc.

I seem to use one or the other (grinder or tormek) but don't mix and match. I especially like having the tormek around for japanese tools, especially when they're new and some have a convex face.

I worried for a while about the depth of the hollow on a 6" grinder, but I haven't yet had an edge chip into the hollow. I grind with a light touch, and run the grind *very* close to the edge, about as close as it would be after one very light hone from a tormek.

I don't doubt the edge isn't as strong, I just haven't been burned by the gamble yet.

My thought about honing is about like yours. First time off the grinder, I like to be able to put 1000 grit scratches off with only a few passes, and then I go straight to 15k, might take 10 or 15 passes, but the whole honing process is far less than a minute. Some might find that drastic to make that jump, but it works really well, and it's super fast.

I should add that I'm aware after watching the non-defective import grinders that not just buying another one that's "right" and spending $300 is total indulgence, but this hobby as a hobby is really an indulgence, anyway.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi David

The Carba-tec was about $350 a couple of years ago. The AUD has improved against the USD since. Still, that was about double the cost of the only other half-speed machine available at the time (not as much choices here as you have in the US). By comparison, the little Ryobi is available locally for $80.

Another tool that I regret we do not get is the Wolverine. I guess shipping is too expensive. The Veritas is OK, and I like that jigs can be attached. I have also not had a problem with the aluminium construction, as some report ... which is why I am fine with the Tormek add-on. Nevertheless, I would have liked to compare it with the Wolverine, which has a fine reputation for solidness. The other attraction of the Wolverine was the attachment for lathe chisels. However the Tormek has this as well (actually a better version).

I am sure that you will be very happy with the 6" Baldor. Everything is a compromise. With the 6" you get low surface speed, low vibration, and durability. Does it come with a tool rest and, if not, what do you plan to use?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Johnny Kleso]

Derek,
Is your 10" a 2800 or 1400 rpm ??

Mine will let you know its running but its pretty steady but its beast in weight if you want to move it..

I think someone needs to make a good belt driven grinding system with spepped pullies for speed changing..


Saftey Note:
I always turn my face away when I start a grinder till it reachs full speed just in case it blows from something banging the side of the wheel while not running..

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Johnny

The 10" dry grinder was 2800 rpm. I imagine the surface speed was double that of a 8" and quadruple a 6".

Turn my face away?

I would cower in the corner!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

Hi David

I am sure that you will be very happy with the 6" Baldor. Everything is a compromise. With the 6" you get low surface speed, low vibration, and durability. Does it come with a tool rest and, if not, what do you plan to use?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Even $350 is quite a bit for an import grinder, but if it does what it's supposed to do, the cost is forgotten quickly.

The baldor grinders come with either a stamped rest or a two-piece cast rest depending on what you choose, but none of them are large like we expect as woodworkers. The one I ordered has two-piece cast rests. They may be too small, but if they are, I will make larger surfaces out of O1 blade stock.

http://www.baldor.com/products/detail.asp?1=1&page=1&catalogonly=1&catalog=623E&p roduct=Grinders%2FBuffers&family=Grinders|vw_Grind Buff_Grinders#

I've seen the wolverine time and again in the local store, but I never looked closely enough to it to know if it could be used on a pedestal, which is how I want to use this one.

They do not make any lighter weight (that could be shipped standard shipping, <75 pounds) half speed 8" grinders with large rests, it would be nice if they did. I would've bought the big one anyway, if the local price wouldn't have been $200 greater than mail order. One mail order place quoted $150 extra for shipping, and the other stated that you had to complete the order and they would add freight to the invoice after the order (both were drop shippers), leaving you to guess what you'd actually be charged.