Sliding table saw: Too esoteric/specialized?

[James Henderson]

I am currently using a Delta contractors saw that I purchased in '87. It's in great shape and equipped with a cast iron extension wing, Woodpecker PRL and Incra TSLS III + Wonder Fence. It works well, and my son and I use it often, building furniture, cabinets, etc. I use a Festool track saw to break down sheet goods.

But, the Delta is missing a riving knife and I am very safety conscious - especially with my son as a second shop user. I planned to purchase a SawStop ICS and possibly a slider attachment in replacement. But this week I received a sales flyer from Felder with good pricing on K3 Winner packages, which prompted research on sliders.

I am surprised how few have actually transitioned to a slider and how little online information (reviews, tutorials, etc) exists. Aside from Paul Cresti's posts on this board and a small number of 'slider evangelists', it's slim-pickings. I visited a K3 user's shop last week and now I'm vacillating on my saw selection.

On the one hand, the ICS would allow me to retain the excellent Incra fence, provide a riving knive and I could add a slider accessory, resulting in a familiar yet safer table saw solution.

Conversely, a 79" slider on the K3 seems even safer than the ICS for all crosscuts and if I add an Incra crosscut fence (as another user did), the system could approach the convenience of the TSLSIII. But in all honesty, I am concerned that the Felder overall will never really equal the ease and accuracy of the ICS + Incra fence for a furniture builder.

My shop is indistinguishable from a 3-car garage. I don't have the room or inclination to house both types of table saws.

So my question is: Do you think I'll find the slider accurate and convenient enought to use it exclusively? Obviously, there is no "right" answer. I am just trying to benefit from your experiences.

[Bas Pluim]

I'm going through a similar internal debate right now. I'm not sure which side is winning.

My main issue with the traditional cabinet saw is that you need so many accessories for it to perform basic tasks. A sliding table, an aftermarket miter gauge, a crosscut sled, a tapering jig, featherboards, an outfeed table, push blocks etc. And only the newer (and typically more expensive) saws have a riving knife and dust collection in the blade guard. A slider seems to have a lot more features built-in by design.

Price-wise, a fully loaded SawStop would be in the same range as the K3 Winner. And Grizzly makes some very interesting sliders too below $3K.

[Peter Quinn]

So my question is: Do you think I'll find the slider accurate and convenient enought to use it exclusively?

Uh, short answer, Yes. I find sliding table saws less convenient for ripping than a cabinet saw, but far more convenient at almost every thing else. Accurate? You bet, more accurate when set up properly than any sled or most jigs I have seen or made. And very repeatable. I don't have one at home, but I use several at work, and they are indispensable in a custom shop. My ideal set up for a small shop? Sliding table saw and sliding shaper combo.

Safe? Well, most euro sliders aren't going to stop if you put your hand or a hot dog into the blade, but they make it harder to to do so and easier to avoid. Safe work habits are still required with a slider. Rule one, don't put your hand into the spinning blade. Rule two, never forget rule one. Never.

[Karl Brogger]

Rule one, don't put your hand into the spinning blade. Rule two, never forget rule one. Never.

I'd like to add rule three: Pull your head out, and engage your brain

[Paul Murphy]

I don't have a slider, but think one would be very nice to have. I doubt I'll ever have one at this point, but I can see their advantages.

You have a very practical combo in the track saw and contractors saw. Even if you buy a slider you still might prefer to cut sheet goods in half with the track saw. If you have accumulated the crosscut sled, tapering jig, etc., then your decision might come down to the value of a riving knife and/or blade brake. That's a very individual decision.

[Van Huskey]

I must admit I am a cabinet saw fan BUT this is because I can't seem to completely wrap my head around a slider in doing ALL the functions I use my TS for. That said I have never seen anyone who bought a slider and used it for a while wish they kept their cabinet saw. If you are spending ICS money I think a slider is a no brainer instead and the more you use sheet goods the more it swings toward the slider.

[Karl Brogger]

If given the option of spending $15k on a new Altendorf, or $15k on a used vertical panel saw..... I would be all over the v. panel saw.

[Bill ThompsonNM]

I have one of the configurations you're thinking about --a sliding table (exactor) added to a table saw. The sliding table is so useful and accurate, if by some chance I have a $ windfall-- I'd jump at the chance for a true sliding table saw. From this forum, you should discern that ripping isn't the big problem it might sound like. In my ideal world, to save real estate in the shop I'd prefer a smaller slider and a vertical panel saw next to my sheet good storage ... I hate to cart sheet goods!

[C Scott McDonald]

I got the Hammer with the short slider. I love it. It is the best of both worlds. Can I rip an 8ft sheet of ply? nope. I rarely use plywood anyways so it isnt a big deal to me. As you all ready know it is easier to break down sheets with a track saw anyway.

A fellow creeker let me try ripping hard wood on his 9' felder slider and it wasnt for me. It was really awkward to me.

To each their own. In the end you are the one who has to use it so buy what you like.

Scott

[Stephen Cherry]

But in all honesty, I am concerned that the Felder overall will never really equal the ease and accuracy of the ICS + Incra fence for a furniture builder.

My shop is indistinguishable from a 3-car garage. I don't have the room or inclination to house both types of table saws.

So my question is: Do you think I'll find the slider accurate and convenient enought to use it exclusively? Obviously, there is no "right" answer. I am just trying to benefit from your experiences.

I've got a Felder k975 and a inca 259. Big and little.

Bulding mortise and tenon tables with this sort of setup is extremely easy. For table tops, face joint and plane stock, rip one side on the slide, rip the other side to maximize the width on the slide. With a good rip blade, there is no need for the jointer. Glue. Dimensioning the glued up table top on the slide is just as easy as a single board.

Tapered table legs? Start with bandsawn leg blanks. Straitline one side, rotate, straitline the next side. Rip against the fence twice. No need for jointer or planer. The fun part is tapering. This involves setting the flipstop for the top of the leg, and clamping a piece of wood to the slide to project the taper over the blade. A second clamp holds the leg blank to the slide. Taper one side, flip and taper the other. No jigs necessary, and it's all over very quickly.

As for safety, when using the slide, your hand is nowhere near the blade.

Then inca is a super saw for mortise and tenons. It can cut both, and is microscopic, and light, and precise.

And, of course, all of this can be bought used at ridiculously low prices. My felder was about the same as a souped up sawstop.

[frank shic]

james what do you and your son plan on building? if you're planning on doing cabinets, a smaller slider isn't going to help unless it's got at least a 48" stroke to be able to crosscut sheet stock. i outfitted my powermatic contractor's saw with an exaktor sliding table and could not be happier... unless i had a sawstop instead for the safety issues you mentioned.

[Peter Aeschliman]

One thing to keep in mind:

Yes, a sliding table saw helps keep your hands farther away from the blade when cutting panels. But your hands aren't exactly close to the blade when cutting panels on a cabinet saw either...

The real injury risk comes in when you're doing rip cuts with the rip fence- slider or cabinet saw, your hand will be close to the blade, which increases the chance of an accident. So for rip cuts, the Sawstop wins the safety comparison.

I have a Sawstop PCS and recently installed an Excalibur sliding table. It works great. I guarantee that the Hammer sliding table is better, but again, it also doesn't have the safety mechanism for rip cuts.

I guess the only thing I can think of that would give you the best of both worlds (a true sliding table and more safety for rip cuts) would be to buy the Hammer and install a power feeder for your ripping operations.... but for a hobbiest, that just seems too cumbersome. You're not likely to get the power feeder set up for every rip cut, especially if you have to move your fence around a lot.

IMO, if your main reason for replacing your saw is safety, get a Sawstop with a good sliding table attachment. If your main reason is to improve your panel cutting capacity and accuracy, get the Hammer.

Sawstop needs to come out with a true slider with a nice solid rip fence... if they had one, the answer would be clear for you.

I don't think you'll be disappointed by either, though.

[Mike Konobeck]

I made a similar decision. I went from a Delta contractor saw that I had fully setup with about every option you could put on it to a Felder combo. I have to say that I used the contractor saw long enough where I was comfortable with it but it was lacking in a lot of areas and the opportunity came up to buy used. Knowing what I know now I would make the same decision.

The construction of the Hammer/Felder machines is downright amazing. There is no such thing as sheetmetal parts on it. Everything is plate steel, extruded aluminum, and cast iron. There really is no comparison but I have to say that every day I use it I have to think a bit more about how to use it. Everything is so heavy and bulky on it that I find it difficult to switch between functions, including rip and crosscut. You just have to approach the work differently and plan ahead better. It is probably making me more efficient but has been a painful learning experience. Especially when I don't use it every day.

There are times when I wish I had my old saw back but then I just learn and move on. It is a bit different having all the functions in one machine where you wouldn't have to worry about that with just a slider. I think when you spend this kind of money on a saw then people will justify the cost somehow and that desire to make it work probably helps. There is no going back for me at this point. I couldn't imagine being without the capabilities of the saw (overall combo really). I am a hobby woodworker so I don't haul sheet goods around all of the time or work with it for 8-12 hours a day. Breaking stuff down is just smart no matter what kind of saw you have so as long as you already have the Festool then hold onto it and use it when necessary.

I have to admit that I am surprised people would still make the decision to go with a SawStop, Powermatic, etc. when you could get the Hammer for about the same money and not have to invest in the aftermarket sliding tables. It just makes financial sense to go with the K3. If you don't have a shaper then consider the B3. All you get is an expensive piece of engineering with the SawStop that prevents/minimizes the damage of an accident that really can be avoided by using a true slider. Accidents happen and I see the value in the technology but the design of the sliders far exceeds the build quality of an American cabinet saw. You still run a risk of chopping fingers off so I am not saying that it is accident proof but I don't find myself working in close proximity to the blade on a regular basis anymore.

My absolute biggest complaint is the cost of the accessories. My wallet cries just looking at the catalog. Since I purchased used I was fortunate enough to get a ton of accessories. If I had to buy even a fraction of what I got then my family would be eating beans cooked over an open fire for a few months.

I could write more about the functionality but you should really just find someone local to try the saw for yourself to see if it is something you could get used to. If you would like more specifics then PM me and I would be happy to chat more.

[Peter Aeschliman]

You still run a risk of chopping fingers off so I am not saying that it is accident proof but I don't find myself working in close proximity to the blade on a regular basis anymore.

Mike, do you use the sliding table for your rip cuts? Otherwise, I don't see how you can avoid getting your hands close to the blade regularly.

[david blakelock]

James, I started a very similar thread a few weeks ago. I was about to buy a Sawstop PCS and an after market sliding table. By the time the discussion was over I had ordered a Hammer sliding table saw. They were on sale so that helped me make my decision. Not sure if they are still on sale, but I would check out their web site and talk to their rep Carl. He is a great guy. I get my saw in a couple of weeks and will post pictures as well as document the setup and my initial impressions. I currently have a very old and very beat up Sears Craftsman table saw so anything would have been a major improvement. From what I have been told and it has been brought up again in this thread is that using a slider is different from using a cabinet saw and it takes some getting used to. But I have not heard a single bad thing about the Hammer (other than the price...)

Good luck on your decision.

David