True Pro quality stuff at BORGS...

[Tony Zaffuto]

Do you mean to leave out their great plywood?
That is pro quality stuff, right?

I got several pcs. of Lowes "hardwood" plywood a week or so ago. $45.00 per sheet, for some shelves I'm building. I don't know what is in the plywood, but I've never created so much and such fine sawdust as I did breaking down those sheets. The sheets were stamped "made in China" and I wore a respirator, but with the quantity of saw dust, I'll never buy that plywood again. Incidentally, the dust was created equally by my circular saw, my table saw and my router - made no difference how coarse or fine the blade was.

[David Thompson 27577]

Jason -- you asked.......

David, was that letter by any chance a 'K'?

If so, it means "kit"--it comes with a case, that's it.......................

My Milwaukee Sawzall did not come with a case, or a kit. It may have included a blade, but it certainly was not a "kit".

I tend to agree that metal gears versus plastic should make a greater price difference than 20 or 30 dollars. But it did not in this case.

Which means, best I can tell, that Lowes and Milwaukee were not only selling me an inferior product, they were also charging quite a bit too much.

Oh, forgot to mention......... that was the last power tool I bought at Lowes. The stuff they sell is probably great for home-owner type DIY stuff. I'm in the woodworking and home improvement business. I can't afford the time it takes when a tool fails.

[Matt Kestenbaum]

I played this game (what fun!) -- making my list of decent stuff that I have picked up at the BORGs. Its definitely true that I find myself mostly turning to Lie-Nielsen, Lee Valley, Tools For Working Wood, and occasionally woodcraft. But, between HD and Lowes I have bought way more stuff than I would have initially thought:

SPAX Screws
Bosch 1617 EVSK Router (plunge and fixed bases)
Bosch Colt router
Dewalt 735 planer (got it for $127 when HD discoed it!)
Lufkin folding rule
Danish Oil (many many quarts of for $.37)
Titebond original wood glue
BLO, Denatured Alcohol, Mineral Spirits, turpentine
Norton Sandpapers (for hand-sanding)
3M nylon pads (replaced #0000 steel wool)
Jorgensen clamps
T-8 Shop lighting fixtures and bulbs
Dewalt tapered counter sink bits
Safety glasses, respirator and ear-muffs
suede gloves for handling rough sawn boards at the local sawyer

[Zach England]

Professional contractors have very different needs from professional furniture/boat/cabinet/whatever builders.

Don't get me wrong...I embrace elitism in all its forms.

[Kevin Womer]

I was very happy with the free paint stir stick I got at Home Depot the other day.

If I remember to ask for one, if not I usually just come home with the paint.

[Kevin Womer]

Home depot carries good clamps. They have a fine selection of hammers. Their plywood IS pretty awful most of the time, but the MDF is fine and so is their basic construction material other than their dimensional lumber which is usually TERRIBLE for whatever reason. Lowes carries a fine selection of oddball hardware though so do my local hardware stores. HD has a great selection of dowels.

A lot of Lowe's Kobalt tools are not bad at all. The Rigid line that HD carries is generally nice too. I forget which one but one of them carries Hilti.

HD and Lowes both have some nice compressors, and as someone else said they carry some nice pneumatic tools too. They also carry some nice routers.

I could go on. The bottom line is that I can make a similar list for almost ANY supplier out there. I can make a list of things Grizzly makes poorly and very well. Lee Valley carries some low end items in addition to their higher end offerings. Even Lie-Neilsen carries some junk, i.e. I just looked and they're still carrying Nicholson's #s 49 and 50 rasps. These Brazilian monstrosities are nothing like the old 49 and 50 many of you are familiar with.

Fortunately you can always come to SMC and select the items that us curmudgeons complain about the least. LOL.

I read in FWW a while back that those green 2" spring clamps were rated as good as about any other ones out there, I picked up a half a dozen the other day for $0.99 a piece, those are nice and I do really like my OSS that Rigid makes as well.

[John Coloccia]

I read in FWW a while back that those green 2" spring clamps were rated as good as about any other ones out there, I picked up a half a dozen the other day for $0.99 a piece, those are nice and I do really like my OSS that Rigid makes as well.

Harbor Freight carries some fantastic, CHEAP, spring clamps (like Pony clamps). I must have 50 of them kicking around, if not more. When they go on sale, I usually clean them out.

[David Prince]

I can think of good and bad from BORGS and local hardware and lumber yards.

There are some things I will usually buy from a BORG like insulation. Does my local lumberyard get a better quality of the same brand name? Doubt it, but the price is 30% higher.

The poor contractor that uses Ryobi might not know any better... but I do have a Ryobi dremel type tool that has always performed as expected and I have had it and used it for several years. I also have some Harbor Freight stuff. I also have Festool, Milwaukee, Dewalt, PC and B & D. It doesn't make sense to buy top of the line for something that doesn't get used that often whether you are professional or novice. I will pay accordingly to how much I will use it and to what degree of quality I am expecting.

To me the BORG and the local guy both has their place.

[Dan Karachio]

Actually, it does make them professional.

According to my American Heritage Dictionary
Professional: 1. Of or engaged in a profession 2. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood

The definition of professional does not say anything about quality.

So really the fallacy is that professional means a certain level of quality.

Their definition of profession: an occupation requiring training and specialized study.

John
(waiting to give a professional grade thermodynamics exam )

Actually, we were taught in grad school that the original meaning of "a professional" was one engaged in some work that benefited society. Therefore, a physician or teacher would be considered a professional under this definition. Obviously, now that hedge fund managers can be thought of as professionals, this definition has changed and is often used to identify one that makes good money and/or one that has knowledge and/or one that does high quality work, whoever it may benefit.

I better get on topic. I agree with the poster above about some of the clamps, Kreg stuff.... That's really about it except for some smaller power tools, ladders and other things, but it is not the same type of store as a Woodcraft, that's for sure.

[johnny means]

Any professional cabinet/furniture maker worth his or her salt should be able to build high quality products using only tools and materials found in the Borgs. Just like any hack can build junk with the finest machines and material available. These home improvement retailers are what they are and provide what the vast majority of us need at a price we can deal with. We don't bash Ford dealers for not selling Ferraris.

[Brandon Weiss]

Any professional cabinet/furniture maker worth his or her salt should be able to build high quality products using only tools and materials found in the Borgs. Just like any hack can build junk with the finest machines and material available. These home improvement retailers are what they are and provide what the vast majority of us need at a price we can deal with. We don't bash Ford dealers for not selling Ferraris.

I don't say this often, but amen brother. Well said.

[Mike OMelia]

If you don't like Lowes and HD, don't go there. As far back as I can recall, they have always been bad in some areas and good in others. They are not there for fine woodworking. Too small a market (compared to their business model). However, like Fresh Market is to Winn-Dixie, it would be nice if one of the big box stores decided to fill that niche.

Mike

[Steven Hsieh]

There are some things I will usually buy from a BORG like insulation. Does my local lumberyard get a better quality of the same brand name? Doubt it, but the price is 30% higher.

It's CPV

Lets say Porter-Cable has a framing saw, you see it in your local tool shop for...say $189
It's quiet, light, strong, and has a great blade
You shop around a bit and see it in HD for less
It's only $159...what a bargain!

Hold on there partner, here's what happened
HD brass saw the P/C saw and said great, we want to carry that, but we want to charge less than $189
P/C says we can't lower our price to you, it's a great price

Now comes the CPV
Customer Perceived Value

Big Box says well, our average customer won't see the value (extra $) of that magnesium guide...can you make it steel?
Our avg. cust won't perceive the value of those fancy motor bushings, or that fancy blade
Make your saw for us to these new specs and we'll carry your saw
And we'll sell it for $159

If P/C says no, then Big Box won't carry a P/C framing saw

Voila, Home Despot has a de-spec'd P/C saw that looks like the one at the local tool shop

[David Prince]

It's CPV

Lets say Porter-Cable has a framing saw, you see it in your local tool shop for...say $189
It's quiet, light, strong, and has a great blade
You shop around a bit and see it in HD for less
It's only $159...what a bargain!

Hold on there partner, here's what happened
HD brass saw the P/C saw and said great, we want to carry that, but we want to charge less than $189
P/C says we can't lower our price to you, it's a great price

Now comes the CPV
Customer Perceived Value

Big Box says well, our average customer won't see the value (extra $) of that magnesium guide...can you make it steel?
Our avg. cust won't perceive the value of those fancy motor bushings, or that fancy blade
Make your saw for us to these new specs and we'll carry your saw
And we'll sell it for $159

If P/C says no, then Big Box won't carry a P/C framing saw

Voila, Home Despot has a de-spec'd P/C saw that looks like the one at the local tool shop

I would agree that this does happen, but if you compare UPC numbers and model numbers you will see that often times they are the VERY SAME product. The BORG is able to negotiate a better price because they are able to purchase in large quantities. Some can even pay cash for truck loads of the stuff. That will move a manufacturer's price point!

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Any professional cabinet/furniture maker worth his or her salt should be able to build high quality products using only tools and materials found in the Borgs. Just like any hack can build junk with the finest machines and material available. These home improvement retailers are what they are and provide what the vast majority of us need at a price we can deal with. We don't bash Ford dealers for not selling Ferraris.

Well said, tools does not make the man. That said, I can't even properly use a Stanley plane, why would I buy a L-N? Because I can say, I have one. No, I actually don't, but I wish I could say that. Then I could build junk furniture witha real good plane.