BLO is an oil stain.

[Scott Holmes]

Hi Bob,

Here's what you posted ..Here's some more great advice from a "furniture refinish expert" .. .. .. http://www.refinishfurniture.com/finishwood.htm

Well I looked at this site to see what he had to say... (This is a cut and paste from his page right after the part you cut and pasted)

Other Oils

The other oils are much easier to use. Danish Oil and Tung Oil are two popular oil finishes. They are very easy to use and come in clear and in pigmented colors. Just follow the directions on the container, but double the number or coats they recommend. They aren't as durable as some other finishes, but are very easy to repair. If you get a light scratch in the finish, just grab a cloth and apply another coat of the finish and generally it's all taken care of.

He doesn't even tell us which Danish Oil or Tung oil he is talking about... The Tung Oil finish could be 100% pure Tung or it could be Formby's wiping varnish (that doesn't even have a trace of tung oil in nor was the varnish made from tung oil) Now for the "Danish Oil" it is 100% wrong this "Danish oil" is made from (the pastry? the poeple?) NO, it's an oil/varnish blend.

So this expert you are referencing is lumping oils (maybe) and oil/varnish blends into one catagory...

I'm impressed by his expertise and his thoroughness; NOT in a positive way!

[John Coloccia]

That zillions of coats BLO thing is sort of a traditional gun stock finish. I don't agree with the schedule. The proper way to do it if you're going to do that, IN MY OPINION, is to rub a small amount in and wait until it is completely dry and no longer tacky (assuming you're one of the lucky ones for whom BLO actually cures). And then do it again....and again....and again, maybe 20 or 30 times. This sort of relates to another thread of building up a film with BLO. Eventually, you'll end up with a very thin film but it will never build beyond that, as far as I can tell. Past that point, it will either just wipe off as you're applying it or it will be too thick and simply never cure. This process can literally take months. I did it once on a scrap piece just to see what it's like. It's a nice finish, but I can get similar finishes with much less work that are more durable, so I probably wouldn't do it again unless I was doing a reproduction for some wacky reason.

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> Rags soaked in 10-W30 will spontaneooulsy combust as well

Absolutely wrong. Soak a rag in any petroleum based oil, wad it up and put it in an empty metal can. Put a thermometer into the can. Let it set and tell me if you see any rise in temperature or a resulting spontaneous combustion.

For the rag to combust, it requires an exothermic reaction which is due to an interaction with oxygen. Only oils that dry will create and exothermic reaction.

[Bob Wingard]

>>>> Rags soaked in 10-W30 will spontaneooulsy combust as well

Absolutely wrong. Soak a rag in any petroleum based oil, wad it up and put it in an empty metal can. Put a thermometer into the can. Let it set and tell me if you see any rise in temperature or a resulting spontaneous combustion.

For the rag to combust, it requires an exothermic reaction which is due to an interaction with oxygen. Only oils that dry will create and exothermic reaction.

ANOTHER absolutely incorrect "factoid" ... here's the REAL information regarding spontaneous combustion ...


Cause and ignition

1. A substance with a relatively low ignition temperature begins to release heat, which may occur in several ways, such as oxidation or fermentation.
2. The heat is unable to escape, and the temperature of the material rises
3. The temperature of the material rises above its ignition point
4. Combustion begins if a sufficiently strong oxidizer, such as oxygen, is present.



Affected materials
A large compost pile can spontaneously combust if not properly managed.

* Haystacks, compost piles and unprocessed cotton[citation needed] may self-ignite because of heat produced by bacterial fermentation.[1][2]
* Grain dust in a hot metal silo can explode violently, destroying the structure.
* Linseed oil in a partially confined space (such as a pile of oil-soaked rags left out in an uncovered container) can oxidize leading to a buildup of heat and thus ignition.[3][4]
* Coal can spontaneously ignite when exposed to oxygen which causes it to react and heat up when there is insufficient ventilation for cooling.[5]
* Pyrite oxidation is often the cause of coal spontaneous ignition in old Mine tailings.
* Pistachio nuts are highly flammable when stored in large quantities, and are prone to self-heating and spontaneous combustion.[6]
* Large cow manure piles can spontaneously combust during conditions of extreme heat.
* Cotton /Linen. when these materials come into contact with polyunsaturated vegetable oils(linseed, massage oils) bacteria slowly decompose the materials, producing heat. If these materials are stored in a way so the heat cannot escape, the heat build up increases the rate of decomposition and thus the rate of heat build up increases. Once ignition temperature is reached, combustion occurs with oxidizers present (oxygen).

In addition large areas of woodland, shrubland and grasslands during periods of dry hot weather are known to be capable of spontaneously combusting - though the mechanisms causing this are poorly understood. This has been proven to occur via the lifecycle of a variety of plants which require the area to be burned prior to germination.


Additionally ... I have personally witnessed peat bogs in northern Illinois smoldering from spontaneous combustion ... they are about as dry as linseed oil !!!!

[John Coloccia]

Motor oil does not spontaneously combust.

[Bob Wingard]

A simple search found:


From : http://www.westmetrofire.org/index.c...5&detailsid=86




Oily Rags--Spontaneous Combustion: Beware of Creating a Fire Hazard

Picture this: It's time to cut the lawn again. You go into the garage to get your mower ready. You check the
mower's oil level and see that it needs some engine oil. So you pour in some oil and wipe up the minor spillage with an old rag. Then you toss the rag into a pail, wheel the lawnmower out of the garage, and proceed to cut the grass.

What's Wrong with This Picture?
If you're thinking that the oily rag you tossed into the pail might be the problem, you're right. Something as
seemingly harmless as tossing an oily rag aside and forgetting about it can ignite a big problem for you. That's
because of a phenomenon called spontaneous combustion.

What Is Spontaneous Combustion?
The Encyclopedia Britannica defines spontaneous combustion as the outbreak of fire without application of heat from an external source. This combustion can occur when flammable matter like oily rags, damp hay, leaves, or coal is stored in bulk. Spontaneous combustion, sometimes referred to as spontaneous ignition, begins when a combustible object is heated to its ignition temperature by a slow oxidation process. Oxidation is a chemical reaction involving the oxygen in the air around us gradually raising the inside temperature of something (like a pile of rags) to the point at which a fire starts.

[John Coloccia]

http://www.cfitrainer.com/Resources/...?id=August2009

Just listen to it, or read the transcript at the bottom, particularly the part where it says that motor oil won't heat up at all. Then send the International Association of Arson Investigators a nice e-mail explaining how they're wrong.

I like a good discussion as much as anyone, but I'm done with this nonsense and this rudeness.

Peace.

[Chris Padilla]

Folks,

Lets get back to the lively discussion here and keep it friendly. As some can see, I did a bit of editing to keep the peace.

Thanks....

[Scott Holmes]

Hi Bob,

Here's what you posted ..Here's some more great advice from a "furniture refinish expert" .. .. .. http://www.refinishfurniture.com/finishwood.htm

Well I looked at this site to see what he had to say... (This is a cut and paste from his page right after the part you cut and pasted)

Other Oils

The other oils are much easier to use. Danish Oil and Tung Oil are two popular oil finishes. They are very easy to use and come in clear and in pigmented colors. Just follow the directions on the container, but double the number or coats they recommend. They aren't as durable as some other finishes, but are very easy to repair. If you get a light scratch in the finish, just grab a cloth and apply another coat of the finish and generally it's all taken care of.

He doesn't even tell us which Danish Oil or Tung oil he is talking about... The Tung Oil finish could be 100% pure Tung or it could be Formby's Tung oil Finish which is a wiping varnish (that doesn't even have a trace of tung oil in it, nor was the varnish made from tung oil) Now for the "Danish Oil" it is 100% wrong this "Danish oil" is made from (the pastry? the poeple?) NO, it's an oil/varnish blend.

So this expert you are referencing is lumping oils (maybe) and oil/varnish blends into one catagory...

I'm impressed by his expertise and his thoroughness; NOT in a positive way by any stretch of the imagination!

[Howard Acheson]

>>>> ANOTHER absolutely incorrect "factoid"

It's amazing you can write and not read.

Your item #1 says correctly "A substance with a relatively low ignition temperature begins to release heat, which may occur in several ways, such as oxidation or fermentation."

Motor oil will NOT release heat as it neither oxidizes or ferments.

Before you spout any more of your drivel, please make the simple test I described previously. If you are able to create ANY temperature rise I would like to know.

None of your "affected materials" are a non-drying oil like motor oil. If an oil does not dry, it does not generate heat.

[Steve Schoene]

I don't know whether applying shellac over BLO after 15 minutes is rediculous, I do know it is a practice recommended in FWW by professional finisher and author Jeff Jewitt. The Taunton FWW finishing special issue available now has a reprint of that article. And, it doesn't take much browsing on the web to see how widely an initial coat of BLO followed by a shellac top coat is recommended, but it will take a very long time to find examples where people report drying or adhesion problems with that sequence.

Obviously BLO is not the sort of chemically inert substance Bob appears to hypothesize. It is oxidizing and polymerizing. Just dampen a paper towel with BLO, wad it into a ball, and toss it into a a half filled trash can. Of course, in a short time you will need a fire extinquisher or the fire department since the chemical reaction that is happening is exothermic and will cause spontaneous combustion. That same reaction is occuring on and in the wood, but slowly enough that the heat created doesn't build to the level that changes into a combustion. The reaction is creating different chemical molecules, some of which do polymerize into heavier molecular weight forms. Eventually they become less fluid--this may take a long time, but it is by no means forever, especially when assisted by the catalysts afforded by the metallic "driers" that make BLO boiled.

Addressing issues of sap color blending etc. is easily addressed with that very little modification. The best practice for such color evening is to use a water or alcohol soluble dye on bare wood. When dry the oil can be applied and everything else can follow exactly as before.

[Jim Becker]

Thanks, Steve and Howie. It's subject matter experts like you that make this community so valuable. Your input, as always, is appreciated.

[Chuck Tringo]

Actually, I've had shop towels...the blue ones from the borg, that ive wiped off BLO with and sat in the sun to dry before putting them in the trash when i was in AZ (to avoid the whole spontaneous combustion thing) they were crusty dry in a few weeks.....must have been faulty BLO....