Rogue Sawstop Brake Activation

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Enough of the virtues of SawStop arguments here.

That isn't the subject of this thread. I am really close to spending time to remove all those posts.

That's off topic for this thread.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This thread is temporarily closed. When I return I will edit all of the off topic posts. Enough. This is not a thread to argue the virtues of SawStop or non-SawStop threads. Take it to another thread but history here at SMC has shown it can't be discussed but rather ranted and that thread will end up being removed.

I will ask for other Moderator's opinions. If they disagree with me, I will invite them to open this thread back up as they see fit.

ENOUGH!

[Michael Peet]

I spoke with Saw Stop this morning, and after getting the serial numbers of the brake cartridges they surmise it is the same issue Elijah mentioned in his post - the brakes interpreted the noise inherent in the switch operation as a reason to fire. He said they had seen this problem on a small percentage of units combined with the older brakes.

Both my brakes were bought at the same time so they were both susceptible to this issue. It has been resolved in their newest brakes, and they are sending me two (expedited) to replace those that misfired. They are also sending a shipping label so I can send the two spent cartridges back to them. I will also note that is was very easy and hassle-free working with their support team.

If you are interested, brake serial numbers ending in D13 should include the fix.

Mike

[Joe Jensen]

I've had the benefit of using a SawStop since early 2006 in a commercial setting where there are multiple users. We have had many activations in the almost 5 years with the saw and to my recollection only one was unexplainable. We sent that cartridge back to the company and they replaced it free of charge. Most all of the activations have occurred due to something conductive hitting the blade which is supposed to happen.
I'll echo others' sentiments here that nothing is fool proof, no system is perfect. I will tell you from the thousands of hours I've had on that saw that it NEVER enters my mind to be careless because of the safety net the technology provides. The constant reminder is the spinning blade and the inherent self preservation mode that kicks in while operating it.

Oddly when I bought a SawStop the same thing happened. Before the SawStop I used a PM66 and before that a Unisaw. For the 20 years or so of using them I never had a guard. I was always careful, but stupid. Once I bought the SawStop I was much more aware of safety devices and I never used the Sawstop without the guard. So owning a Sawstop does not automatically make everyone less aware.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

This thread was started by the OP to report initially an unjustified firing of his SawStop cartidge. Later he reported that after replacing that failed cartridge, a 2nd cartridge failed in the same manner.

It seems reasonable to have it pointed out that a malfunction in the electronics could result in a failure in the opposite condition meaning the cartridge wouldn't fire when the operators body or other materials that should cause it to fire. In other words, the hot dog would bite the dust on a SawStop.

It also seems reasonable to have it quoted from the SawStop manual that even the manufacturer recommends using normal safe practices and not relying on the SawStop safety devices as your first line of safety.

This thread was not started by the OP to debate the value of the SawStop technology or for rants that safe operating habits make the SS technology unwarranted or that if the technology can fail, why buy it? Sorry. If you want to discuss it start your own thread but as Chris Padilla pointed out they typically don't last long.

If I edited your post, I found some information I considered valuable in it.

If I deleted your post, I found it not germane to the topic of this thread, or argumentative, or just another pile-on comment that lent no value to the thread. If you care to discuss this, you can do so via PMs.

I have just spent 45 minutes cleaning up a thread that I believe has some value to SawStop owners. For the record, I don't own a SawStop. I am not in the employment of SawStop. I have argued here at SMC quite forcefully with the inventor of SawStop. I don't intend on buying a SawStop. I don't get paid by Festool, SS, Grizzly or any tool manufacturer. I bought my own tools and paid retail value and now I'm going go use them.

NO MORE OFF TOPIC POSTS PLEASE.

[Elijah Fontenot]

Michael, thats great that things have worked out for you. I'm glad you had a great experience dealing with SawStop, b/c after having a brake fire it sure is a crappy feeling.

Are they gonna send you a new control box or just update the software in the brakes?

[Dave MacArthur]

Michael,
Good info on the brakes-- I just checked mine, both B03, purchased around 2007 I think.
Couple questions for you, if you don't mind?
1. What model SS do you have, and when was it made?
2. You said , "older brakes", but do you have any more specific info on how old the brakes were, or what lot, what serial # ending etc?

Probably not critical to know unless it happens to me, but the info might help someone else who has it happen and gets on here searching for help. I added some tags to the thread also to help folks searching.
Glad to hear it was easy to work with SS. If this happens to me, I'll have an idea what it is now--thanks again!

[Glenn Vaughn]

I contacted SawStop about the breaks for my Contractor and got this reply:

It’s a combination of the 220v contactor used on the PCS and CNS 220v versions, and cartridge software below D13. It’s a fairly subtle noise interaction that has actually happened on very few saws. D13 software contains fixes that prevent the possibility of this interaction. If you have a 220v contactor, we’ll be happy to reprogram your D10 brake to D13 firmware. If you’re running 115v, this is not an issue.

[Michael Peet]

Are they gonna send you a new control box or just update the software in the brakes?

Elijah, I believe they are only replacing the brakes. They said they modified the logic in the brake to ignore the startup noise during some very short window of time. So the noise will still be there, it just won't trigger the brake anymore.

Michael,
Good info on the brakes-- I just checked mine, both B03, purchased around 2007 I think.
Couple questions for you, if you don't mind?
1. What model SS do you have, and when was it made?
2. You said , "older brakes", but do you have any more specific info on how old the brakes were, or what lot, what serial # ending etc?

Dave, I have a PCS which was manufactured in 2008 (I think). My "older brakes" had serial numbers ending in D10.

Cheers,

Mike

[Mark Major]

Glenn, I'm just curious...does the break have a jack (usb or otherwise) on it that the firmware can be updated remotely much the same way you would do an upgrade on a computer peripheral? Thanks.


Regards, Mark

[Dan Hintz]

I imagine for cost reasons they would not include a standard programming port (such as USB). These things don't normally get reprogrammed, so a blank header (for factory programming) on the board is probably the most they would include.

[Glenn Vaughn]

Glenn, I'm just curious...does the break have a jack (usb or otherwise) on it that the firmware can be updated remotely much the same way you would do an upgrade on a computer peripheral? Thanks.

It has a DB9 connector. I doubt it can be done remotely.

[Michael Peet]

They have a 9-pin serial connector:

brake.jpg

Edit, oops Glenn beat me to it.

Mike

[Dan Hintz]

Wow, I'm stunned they even went to that expense... though I suppose for the cost of the saw, what's another $2 in parts.

[Glen Blanchard]

Wow, I'm stunned they even went to that expense... though I suppose for the cost of the saw, what's another $2 in parts.

That's how it plugs in to the saw. Without it there would be no communication.