Issue with MM24 (was: Let's rip MiniMax for a while)

[Robert Reece]

ok, so a few months ago I picked up a used Minimax MM24 bandsaw. This particular saw was manufactured about 5-6 years ago, so it's fairly new. I had been thinking about buying one and this one came up on craigslist so I went and got it.

So first, let me start with the good things I can say about it:
1. Lots of power. It can drive a blade through anything.

That's about it for the good things.

I'm particularly miffed today though because I recently had Louis Iturra extend a Woodmaster CT blade that I had for my old Jet. He added around 3' to the blade to fit the Minimax. Problem is I gave him a blade length using the manufacturer sticker on the saw - which is wrong! Say what? Anybody else notice this phenomenon with Minimax? Apparently my blade length is 196" instead of the sticker which says 176-180. Fabulous job there by minimax.

The other things I hate about the saw:
1. Table is nowhere near flat. At the front of the table where the blade kerf is, there is a dip of around 0.022" (actually 0.018" on left side of kerf, 0.022" on right side). Manual says there are some bolts underneath that allow you to flatten the table but the table is dead flat between the bolts. Any change of those bolts is not going to fix flatness issues at the edge. The table also drops about 0.010" directly behind the blade.

2. Dust collection is abysmal. There are 3 big holes on the very top of the saw which reign sawdust on me while I'm using the saw. I have a 5 HP cyclone and I am running probably 1000 cfm at the bandsaw. I even made myself some cardboard to wrap the blade so that the majority of air is drawn down and across the blade immediately below that table. That helped, but I still get dust floating down on me. It seems to be coming out of the kerf in the spine where the blade runs.

3. The fence is mediocre at best. Trying to just tap it over is futile because of the way it locks and unlocks from the rail. Once you back off the screw handle, it's a lot more like to pivot on the bar than to actually move.

Based on everything said here, I figured getting a minimax would be the last bandsaw I ever needed. I guess if I had it to do again I'd go for the Agazzani which I was eyeing for a while. Oh well, life goes on, even though I haven't yet achieved bandsaw nirvana.

[Stephen Cherry]

If it makes you feel any better, the agazzani fence is no great shakes. Plus, you learned the blade length on a used blade, not a new resaw king.

[Gary Herrmann]

Might not get too many takers here.

You did buy a used bandsaw. 5 or 6 years can be a long time. Are you certain the original owner didn't do anything to the tables? If not, it would be nearly impossible to tell whether it was the previous owner or it came from the factory that way.

[Jeff Duncan]

Not familiar with MiniMax bandsaws in particular, but a couple general thoughts.

First dust collection on bandsaws in general is an afterthought. My dust collection system pulls somewhere over 3k cfm and it doesn't make a dent in the dust generated by my saw. You shouldn't have dust falling on you though, not sure why there would be holes on the top of the saw but you may want to look into closing them off?

Second, fences are also generally afterthoughts on bandsaws. I'd guess because a lot of them likely never get used? Don't know, but the fence on my 20" Delta is OK and gets the job done....but it sure isn't anything fancy.


Third, the blade length thing sounds funny to me. Are you sure about the size of the blade you tried on it? Just because you had a blade altered to fit the saw that's the first place I'd look. But you never know, someone maybe just put the wrong sticker on it at the factory?

Lastly I couldn't tell you whether or not my bandsaw table is flat to within that kind of tolerance. I just wouldn't ever spend the time to check with a bandsaw. What's important is that it cuts well. So unless there was some serious condition it's not a factor for me.

So I guess to sum up, my opinion is that if the saw cuts well you have a good saw. The problems you have I would consider minor. The dust problem can likely be dealt with, and the blade length is an oddity but doesn't affect use from here forward. Some of the things I personally would consider much more important are HP, quality of the guides and ability to set accurately and fairly easily, good strong frame able to tension wide blades. Of course these are just my opinion though, and if you really hate those things about the saw that much you could always keep looking for something better. I know I wouldn't mind upgrading my saw if I had the room and extra cash.

good luck,
JeffD

[Robert Reece]

If it makes you feel any better, the agazzani fence is no great shakes. Plus, you learned the blade length on a used blade, not a new resaw king.

The blade is a Lenox Woodmaster CT and it had not cut much, so it was essentially new. I paid $50 to have it extended to an incorrect length b/c Minimax is unable to properly label the saw. Now I get to choose whether I want this blade to have 3 welds in it, or if I want to throw $50 in the trash, then spend another $50 to replace the blade length we just threw in the trash.

[Robert Reece]

My guess is the previous owner did nothing to the table. The dip is at the very end of the table right where the blade kerf is cut in the table. My guess is a lot of MM bandsaws suffer from this problem as the weight of the cast iron takes over and the table sags. The kerf should have been pinned, but it is not, which seems like a lack of quality to me.

When I first got the saw, the dust was reigning out of the three holes in the top of the saw. Two are for hoisting and one is for the post that supports the upper guides. I put duct tape over them and I still get some dust flying around, but I'd have expected better solutions from a "market leader". I guess I'll have to tape up the kerf in the spine.

Then the blade issue came up today and really miffed me off about this saw. I measured the blade length for the extended blade and Louis did it exactly to my specifications. 178", according the sticker on the saw. I'll be calling Minimax on Monday to ask them about it, but I'm not hopeful of receiving any support since I had called when I first got the saw to ask about the table not being flat and about how these adjustment bolts are supposed to work. The nice lady told me so-and-so wasn't in the shop and would call me back. Riggggggggggght.

I did lie when I said I could only say one good thing about the saw. I really like the tension wheel and how it moves the wheel so much per turn. It makes tensioning and detensioning very nice.

I haven't really had a good opportunity to evaluate how the saw performs. I did resaw some 4" wide stuff, but that is hardly a test of this saw. The cut offs weren't exactly the same thickness on both ends, but that could be the blade I am using. That is why I wanted my Woodmaster CT to be on this saw. Then I'd know for sure, but I guess I have to wait a couple of more weeks to get that answer.

Sorry I'm working so hard on this well respected saw, but I just don't see why this saw commands $5k. Fortunately I got mine used and can turn it back out if I need too.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Robert,

The slot for the blade.....is there a hole drilled there?

My MM-16 is drilled and a removeable chained pin is there to prevent the sagging you describe.

My dust collection works well. When I got my machine, it came with plastic plugs to plug the holes you talk about..... There is even an adjustable sleeve under the table to keep the sleeve close to the underside of the table when you tilt it.

The stock fence is as good as any stock fence I've seen. There are some better after market fences but....that really is a matter of personal taste.

I suspect the MM-24 you got may be older than 5 years as mine MM-16 is 4 years old.

It's interesting about the sticker for the blade size as the MM website plainly says it takes 196" blade.

Beyond that ....these saws are really at the lower end of industrial saws....not hobbiest saws and therefore...made to last without all the bells and whistles that most hobbiests would like to see.

[John Thompson]

As for blade lenght.. I would never trust the label on the saw period. A string around the wheels with tension off and raised would have nailed down the puzzle.

1.. Google cast iron and read the properties. Cast iron is rather soft compared to steel and can contain stress which causes movement over time if stress releases. The table could have been dead flat when ground and move afterward. Cast iron is simply not perfect! And... tables are ground in the factory with the "pin in". But exactly how far in was the pin when ground. Try moving the pin in and out and see if you get a better reading on the dips. BTW... after having run around 12,000 linear ft. of re-saw through my BS which has dips as much or more than yours I can tell you it won't matter in reality. You would have to attach plastic explosives to a nat's hinny to blast it through a 0.010 crack. Take a close look at the thickness of a 0.010 blade on a feeler gauge. I seriously doubt you will ever have to waste one inch of wood with those tolerances.

2. Can't help with the dust control. MM inserts a plywood piece under the table to keep the suction directed to the point just under the blade. Call MM tech on how to go about that. As for the dust coming out between the table split for the blade or any other openings... duct tape goes on and comes off easily. I had a Uni-saw that shot saw-dust from 12 various opening around the top of saw once.. duct tape is your friend! haha

3. I have owned BS's since 1974 and demonstrated a few at IWF for manufacturers. I can't remember ever seeing a really good fence that came OEM with the saw. Some are just better than others but have never found one that I couldn't make work which includes a few home-made.

You probably got a decent price on your MM on CL. Consider yourself lucky if you did as I think it will be the last re-saw BS you will ever need. I have a 14" BS for curves and an 18" for re-saw to avoid blade changing. That's a perfect set up IMO as I use both frequently as I am in the shop 5 days a week.

Good luck with that tank...

[Stephen Cherry]

The blade is a Lenox Woodmaster CT and it had not cut much, so it was essentially new. I paid $50 to have it extended to an incorrect length b/c Minimax is unable to properly label the saw. Now I get to choose whether I want this blade to have 3 welds in it, or if I want to throw $50 in the trash, then spend another $50 to replace the blade length we just threw in the trash.

It's not a 14" delta- you need to confirm these things. Cut out what was welded in, weld in a new longer section for a total of two welds. Lesson learnt on the cheap.

YOu should feel pretty happy- you have a saw where you can actually crank up the tension on some pretty good sized wheels. I'm sure it will cut like there's no tomorow when you get the kinks worked out.

[Chuck Wintle]

The other things I hate about the saw:
1. Table is nowhere near flat. At the front of the table where the blade kerf is, there is a dip of around 0.010". Manual says there are some bolts underneath that allow you to flatten the table but the table is dead flat between the bolts. Any change of those bolts is not going to fix flatness issues at the edge. The table also drops about 0.010" directly behind the blade.

0.010" is not very much...maybe the thickness of paper?

[Bruce Page]

I love my MM. The only complaint I had about it was the funky plastic throat plate and I fixed that. My fence was dead on 90° from the table and easy to adjust for drift. I’m not sure how flat my table is, I don’t recall if I even checked it. I don’t know many people that do fine woodworking or joinery right from their BS. In any case, .010 out of flat on a bandsaw table is inconsequential IMO. I don’t know what to say about the blade length. I would take some string and measure a blade that does fit or measure around the wheels at both minimum & maximum adjustments and shoot for somewhere between them, preferably a little on the + side of middle.

Ps., .010 is about the same thickness as 2 1/2 sheets of notebook paper.

[Gary Herrmann]

Aww Bruce, I just remembered that brass insert you made. I have to bribe you to make one for me somehow...

I've got an MM16. 5 years old, I think. I only get the sawdust snowstorm when, like today I forget to turn on the DC. My table is flat and I think the points about the ply insert and the pin is a good point as well. Robert, did you check for those two items? Reminds me that I need to make a backup piece of ply and look at adjusting/getting a new brush for the lower wheel.

[Larry Edgerton]

Really? Thats what you are going to go with? You make a mistake in my opinion and you are going to throw a bunch of ho-ha out there about the manufacturer because you made a mistake?

I have lots of Minimax, and the first repair I had to make was to replace the belts on my slider after 15 years, a switch on one of my shapers, and well, the paint does not look as fresh as it used to. And don't get me going on SCMI! The blades in my planer get dull far too often.

Get over it.....

[Howard Skillington]

If you have put your Starrett straight edge on your bandsaw table and discovered that you can slip your .01" feeler gauge under it at a couple of points, and if that upsets you, then I won't try to talk you out of it. But let's get real here: nobody bandsaws within a hundredth of an inch, and there is no circumstance in which that imperfection in your bandsaw table is going to be significant in the work you do with the tool. I'd suggest worrying about other things.

[Stephen Cherry]

And don't get me going on SCMI! The blades in my planer get dull far too often.

Get over it.....

If you think about it, now is a great time to set up a shop with woodworking equipment. I just bought a SCMI shaper with feeder for about 800 dollars.

Super build quality, for not a lot of money. The machine was very lightly used, but I did need to go through and clean up and lubricate.

That's the cost of saving many thousands of dollars on a machine.