Discoloring with Vinegar?

[Brett Bobo]

After soaking a plane's parts in white vinegar, most of the light surface rust is removed but what remains is a yellow spotting in various spots. I left the parts in the vinegar bath for approximately 24 hours. What's causing the yellow discoloration and how long should the plane parts soak for, typically? I tired scrubbing several areas with a scotch-brite pad but it didn't work all that well. What works well for removing the discoloration, product and method?

Also, can vinegar be continually re-used or is there a "life span" to vinegar?

Thanks in advance,
Brett

[Jeremy Dorn]

I find that the yellowing you're referring to is easily removed with a "new" green scotchbrite pad. If you reuse an old one too long it starts to lose its scratching ability and it won't work anymore which is probably why its not working well for you. I figure since you can buy them for very little there's no reason to push them beyond their useful lives. New ones will only take a couple minutes to buff an entire plane sole clean.

I also sometimes will use a small wire wheel brush in a dremel or bench grinder to clean parts that arent machined or nickel plated, ie screws and the like.

I've never figured out if there's a finite life span, but I've had a bath of it I've used for 3-4 months (which cleaned probably 40+ planes) before replacing without any issues. I tend to replace the vinegar when it starts developing a crust on top of it when its sitting idle. Seems to happen when its been used quite a bit and there's alot of rust debris in the tub itself. I was originally going to filter it with a coffee filter and reuse, but that just seemed like alot of work for saving $4 worth of vinegar.

[Prashun Patel]

My citric acid baths turn yellow after a few rusted iron soaking sessions. Muriatic acid also turns yellow/green as it etches concrete. Can't explain it, but I think it's normal. I agree with the previous poster; you gotta couple the soak with some kind of abrasion during or after removal; this should get rid of the discoloration and other oxidation.

[Brett Bobo]

By mistake, I forgot about a plane that I had soaking in a vinegar bath for approximately 7 days! Upon getting all of the parts out, there was a blackish, gritty residue on most of the metal parts that was very difficult to remove. After several hours, I was able to remove most of it with sandpaper by lapping most of the parts, where possible and accessible. What is this black residue--dissolved rust? Is there any damage by leaving a plane in a vinegar bath for this long? What's the typical duration for a vinegar bath--24 to 48 hours?

Thanks!

[Mike Henderson]

I use a deburring wheel for cleaning plane parts. Works fast and leaves a nice finish.

Mike

[Brett Bobo]

Mike,
Is a steel-wired wheel for a drill comparable to what you're referring to as a deburring wheel, which I assume goes on the grinder?

Thanks,
Brett

[David Weaver]

Try to find a brass wheel if you're not going to use a deburring wheel (deburring wheels can be expensive). A steel wire wheel will leave scuffs all over a plane.

If you have several planes to restore, it's probably worth it to buy a cheap grinder or buffer from HF to mount the wheels on (use coupon, find on sale, etc). I have gotten by with the cheapest buffer they have for years with a brass wheel on it (the 6" buffer).

HF's supposed brass wheels appear to be mild steel or something similar with a coating on them, though. Try to find one that's all brass, and no matter what, wear eye protection when you do it, stuff flies everywhere including wire missiles that break off. Sooner or later you'll touch your fingertip to the wheel, too, try to avoid that - it really wakes you up - like 10000 cat scratches at once on a small spot.

To avoid graying or coloring castings, I usually use the wheel to nail the iron and chipbreaker and sides and sole (if they aren't going to get a lapping) and use a foam brush and apply concrete etch (phosphoric acid) from home depot to the inside parts of the plate several times to neutralize the rust, and then remove it with a brass or nylon bristle brush. You can soak the whole thing, iron and all, but I always thing a dull gray plane looks tasteless. If I absolutely have to soak an iron because it's got pitting too bad for mechanical removal (especially old double irons where the wrought has bad pitting), then I will hit them with oxpho blue quickly to darken them afterwards. That's not an original look, either, but at least it doesn't look as amateurish.

[Mike Henderson]

Mike,
Is a steel-wired wheel for a drill comparable to what you're referring to as a deburring wheel, which I assume goes on the grinder?

Thanks,
Brett

No, a deburring wheel is quite a bit different from a steel wire wheel. They can be expensive new, but I've bought a couple from eBay at reasonable prices. They last a long time if all you use them for is cleaning tool parts. Note that the part will get hot when you clean it with a deburring wheel. With some parts, I clean one half, then set it aside to cool while I do another part. It doesn't get so hot as to affect the temper of the part - a blade, for example - but it can be uncomfortable in your bare hand.

Mike

[added note: If you use a steel or brass wire wheel, please use eye protection. Those wires fly off on a regular basis.]

[Bob Strawn]

By mistake, I forgot about a plane that I had soaking in a vinegar bath for approximately 7 days! Upon getting all of the parts out, there was a blackish, gritty residue on most of the metal parts that was very difficult to remove. After several hours, I was able to remove most of it with sandpaper by lapping most of the parts, where possible and accessible. What is this black residue--dissolved rust? Is there any damage by leaving a plane in a vinegar bath for this long? What's the typical duration for a vinegar bath--24 to 48 hours?

Thanks!

The black or gray residue is a very nice thing to have. It is a form of iron oxide, or rust. It is however different from red rust as it does not expand cracks and promote further rust. It does however, and here is the big thing, add a bit of resistance to rust. It makes a somewhat self healing layer of protection. The only reason you would not want that coating is if you have a cosmetic need for shiny.

You may have seen this greyish flat finish on an old kitchen knife. It is a classic old time method of steel protection.

Bob

[Brett Bobo]

Mike,
How expensive are the deburring wheels? I just did a quick search for an 8" deburring wheel to fit my grinder and there is a 3M product that's about $40 per wheel. Is there a particular brand that you recommend?

Thanks,
Brett