The future of oil based finishes?

[Phil Thien]

Seeing more and more new water-based finishes, and reading some of the comments here about the fact that you can't get many of the previously available oil-based finishes in CA (I guess some of them having been reformulated), I wonder...

What is the future of these oil-based finishes for the rest of us?

Will other states follow CA and start clamping down on them?

And is CA banning these because of the environment, or safety (inhalation) concerns, or both?

Has anyone found water-based wiping "poly" that looks like oil-based? The oil-based products I've used impart a soft yellow/amber color, whereas water based products don't change the color much.

Please no political comments about regulation or anything, only information about the future of oil based finishes and water-based alternatives.

[Steve Schoene]

I sure hope not. Oil based varnish is hands down the most durable and protective finish that can be generally applied by hand, and to exceed it's durability in spray finishes you have to be able to spray products that are much more noxious than nitrocellulose lacquer--beyond what you or your neighbors would likely tolerate. So far only a part of CA has effectively banned their sale. The rest of the country has limited VOCs but have put in exemptions for materials sold in liter or smaller containers. In other words: industrial users -- get a spray booth, amateurs -- as you were.

[John Keeton]

Phil, I don't use the water based products, but I wonder if one could add some tint to the water based WOP to get the amber hue? Not advocating giving up the oil based stuff as it is far and away a better product. Just thinking out loud.

[Rob Sack]

I just finished a kitchen using Cabots Natural "Stain" followed by CIC water based conversion varnish. I defy anyone to tell the difference in appearance between this and conventional lacquer. I let the stain dry 24 hours, although less would probably have been OK. The CIC conversion varnish dried as quickly as solvent based lacquer and is much more durable and has very low VOC's without the noxious odors and outgassing. The Cabots "stain" immediately ambered the wood. Whether or not the finish will age, time will tell.

[Phil Thien]

Phil, I don't use the water based products, but I wonder if one could add some tint to the water based WOP to get the amber hue? Not advocating giving up the oil based stuff as it is far and away a better product. Just thinking out loud.

Good thought. I've been playing with different stains/dyes with a wiping varnish on top, and I decided two things: (1) I prefer the look of just the varnish, no stain/dye. (2) The wiping varnish smells too much to use indoors in the winter. Especially for a large project (a wall of utility cabinets)

So I did spread some Polycrylic on a sample this evening and thought to myself, "that looks close enough to the wiping varnish, why didn't I like that before?"

I had thought (before the sample) that I could tint the stuff w/ dye, but I don't think I'll have to.

I probably didn't like it previously because it dries so darn fast.

And I'm still curious if other members think the future will be water-based...

I still like my wiping varnish, I suppose I'll be using varnish on large summer projects and small winter projects, and maybe water-based on everything else.

[Phil Thien]

And as long as I'm asking stupid questions...

If I'm trying to minimize odor (stength AND duration), what finish would you guys suggest?

I was thinking I should try some shellac, as it would seem like the duration for any odor would be very short.

But I would like some additional input.

[Jack Clark]

Hey Phil,

Get a quart of Zinsser's Seal Coat shellac and a couple flavors of Trans Tint dye (the liquid version). Then do some tests adding small amounts of the dye (measured by counting drops) in small amounts of the shellac.
For example, 20 drops of Dark Mission Brown Trans Tint in 8 oz. of the Seal Coat does has a pleasing effect on red oak, and you don't have to hang around for hours wiping off oil oozing out of the red oak's plumbing.
Spraying this "toner" may be the best way to apply it, but for small tests, wiping works just fine. As per usual, your mileage my vary...

[Jim Becker]

There are already restrictions in other states. In some cases, a product is no longer available in containers larger than a quart. In other cases, products have been discontinued. When the wide pine flooring in our addition was being finished, the contractor could only source his preferred product in quarts. The manufacturer still sells the finish in gallons, but the formula is different and the contractor doesn't like it one bit.

As for me, I'm perfectly happy with the water borne finish I use. Then again, I'll typically do a light application of BLO and dewaxed shellac to enhance figure and warmth first. And there are now water borne formulas that offer "oil based" varnish emulsified in a water based carrier to cut VOC yet retain the warmth of the oil based finish.

Since we really can't change this trend, we all just need to learn new ways to get good finishing results.

[Kent A Bathurst]

And as long as I'm asking stupid questions...

If I'm trying to minimize odor (stength AND duration), what finish would you guys suggest?

I was thinking I should try some shellac, as it would seem like the duration for any odor would be very short.

But I would like some additional input.

I use shellac a lot, and IMO it fits the bill as you have described. Odor of DA much more tolerable to me than solvents for oil finishes, and if flashes off about as fast as you can lay it down.

[Phil Thien]

Thanks for the feedback. So far I've liked the shellac I've tried (clear spray, just did a small sample) and still like the Polycrylic.

Questions I'm still left wondering: (1) Will the products now limited to quart containers some day just be banned outright? Those are the oil-based finishes, I guess.

(2) Are they being banned because of environmental problems, or health hazards to the person using them?

(3) Are there any water-based finishes that can be applied with a brush (or wiping) that are nearly as impervious to household cleaning as oil-based products? I made a bathroom cabinet some time ago and use Polycrylic on it, thinking it was pretty tough stuff. But some of the products the women use seem to have gotten through it in pretty short order.

[Ronald Kot]

Im new to finishing, and correct me if Im wrong......
original question: What is the future of these oil-based finishes for the rest of us?
Maybe restate the question: are there any oil based finishes that have a future?
Some want a penetrating finish for a natural wood feel and look rather than a surface finish.....arent all water based
finishes surface layer finishes?

I am noticing what is maybe a new category of oil finishes, ones that combine natural oils with wax.
These penetrate, and leave a very thin wax layer on top.
Example, osmo products. Developed in germany, meet environmental standards.
see http://www.osmona.com/
is anyone using this for furniture?