Viper Router Bits

[Mark J Bachler]

Recently in a post I said that I had problems with the carbide on Viper router bits when I was beveling back some laminate laid over a solid oak edge. I find now that it was not the bit but the laminate that was causing the problem. The laminate in question was made by Wilsonart (known for a very hard surface coat) for use on engineered laminate flooring. The client had gotten this laminate for nothing & wanted to use it for counter tops in some rental units. Let me tell ya this stuff is hard!! So far I've pretty much destroyed 2 Viper bits, an Amana. and a Oldham 45 bevel bits. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused.

Mark B.

[Mark Singer]

Viper came in #1 in FWW test....CMT was last!

[Mark J Bachler]

Viper came in #1 in FWW test....CMT was last!

Yea but who believes those guys? Viper probably has a larger advertising budget with Tanumn Press. I mean there good bits but #1 ??

[Kurt Aebi]

Mark,

My kitchen floor is a laminate from Wilsonart and it ate 2 blades on my DeWalt 12" CMS before I was done. I had to drill (6) holes for the radiant heat radiators with a forstner bit and I had to resharpen it before each hole and just threw it out after I was done. You said it - Very Hard!

My in-laws just had the exact same laminate installed (by me) and it doesn't seem to be as hard on the tooling as my floor was 8 years ago. Mine was made in Germany and their's in the US and though they ordered exactly the same color (American Chestnut) with the same codes, the color isn't the same either.

Just curious if the laminate is from the US or Germany.

[mike lucas]

Viper came in #1 in FWW test....CMT was last!

If what you say is true, then this is a perfect example why I say never rely on magazine reviews for your buying dicisions.

That is a joke if ever I seen/read one. Maybe I am a little bias because I have had better luck and better experiances with CMT router bits then with any other brand I have used/owned. (And I have tried most!) But regardless of my opinions. CMT is one of the top 3-4 brands at any cost. And this is a fact!

I guess I had a reason for not buying that magazine, and didn't even know it!

[Kurt Aebi]

Personally, I think the best bits, like tool are the one's that YOU are most comfortable using and hold up best under YOUR test/work conditions and therefore YOUR bits are best to you. I use magazine articles as a guide more than a directive. They usually do weed out the Junk, but if you are comparing 6 quality manufactured bits, I'll bet all 6 are better than the Black & Decker or Craftsman bit sold at much lower prices!

Let's remember - they compare apples to apples and not Porsches to Geo's!

[Joseph N. Myers]

Viper came in #1 in FWW test....CMT was last!

Mark,

Was the FFW test you referred to from Dec 1999 that tested 3 different bits, one being a straight bit ? If so, I think that the Jesada straight bit was the one that came in last (because of breaking and chipping) where the Viper, CMT, Amana, Freud and Whiteside came in at the top of the list. Jesada did fix the bit but was sold a couple of years ago and really went down hil from there.

Regards, Joe

[Mark Singer]

Joseph,

You are correct! I think that there was some connection between CMT and Jesada , but I could be wrong....I have always had good luck with CMT! I think my favorites are Whiteside, Amana, CMT, and Viper

[mike lucas]

Joseph,

You are correct! I think that there was some connection between CMT and Jesada , but I could be wrong....I have always had good luck with CMT! I think my favorites are Whiteside, Amana, CMT, and Viper

About the conection!
I read several places 10 or more years ago that there were a conection. But the son of the original Jesada owner does not mention it when he is ask. He just didn't reply.

But I seam to remember reading that Jesada owner either was a partner, or one of the high ups having a run in with his then CMT company. He went off on his own, and started the company of Jesada. (Named after his three children. Jessaca? David or Dave, and maybe Sam, or Samantha. I really don't remember any other information.)
Other then this, there never was any connection with the bits each of them sold. But many of the items sold by CMT before this all went down, suddenly was being sold by Jesada. (Namely the carving templates for doors and drawers) They have went back to CMT in the past couple years or so, as being new items.

Is this about what you remember?

[Joseph N. Myers]

About the conection!
I read several places 10 or more years ago that there were a conection. But the son of the original Jesada owner does not mention it when he is ask. He just didn't reply.

But I seam to remember reading that Jesada owner either was a partner, or one of the high ups having a run in with his then CMT company. He went off on his own, and started the company of Jesada. (Named after his three children. Jessaca? David or Dave, and maybe Sam, or Samantha. I really don't remember any other information.)
Other then this, there never was any connection with the bits each of them sold. But many of the items sold by CMT before this all went down, suddenly was being sold by Jesada. (Namely the carving templates for doors and drawers) They have went back to CMT in the past couple years or so, as being new items.

Is this about what you remember?

Mike,

Did it again --- wrote a nice long post and somehow it got wiped out --- went through the process of saving it at different times but to no avail. Don’t have time to duplicate it so this post will not be as long but hopefully will help.

The owner of Infinity is alive and well and is a member of this forum. Following is a post from him on Infinity, CMT and Jesada:

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx





Hello Saw Mill Creek forum members,

My name is David Venditto and I am the President of Infinity Cutting Tools in Clearwater, Florida.

I wanted to take this opportunity to clear the air regarding rumors, speculation, concerns and questions relating to my company.

The short version goes something like this;

My father, Carlo, sold his business, Jesada Tools, about 3-1/2 years ago. The new owners did not have much luck with the business and ran into trouble early on. We are not sure if they are out of business but it seems likely at this point.

After the sale of Jesada I worked in another industry until I realized I missed woodworking and so I decided to get back into the cutting tools business. Most of my cutting tool experience comes from setting up and running the production of router bits at Jesada Tools.

Some of the Infinity Tools products resemble the Jesada products because I have designed the line according to the engineering that produced the excellent quality at Jesada. Infinity products are coated with a Silver Teflon, not White and we do not sell any other bits except our own.

Infinity Tools is owned by myself entirely and Im not sure where the Australian ownership theory got its start but that is not true.

We currently have products made to my specification in the U.S.A., Italy, and Taiwan. I provide design, engineering and material spec's for all of our products, regardless of which partner factory we use, like we did at Jesada for items we did not manufacture. For the consumer, the quality assurance comes from the Infinity Tools logo on the product, this means that it stands up to my standards, no b.s.

If any of you have any questions regarding Jesada, (yes, the name stands for JEssica, SAbrina and DAvid), Infinity Tools or routing please call me directly at 1-877-872-2487 and I would be happy to speak with you.

Also, If you are interested in reading some Infinity product reviews please visit our home page and follow the links, www.infinitytools.com



If you would like to read an in depth article regarding our company this link may be of interest to you: http://www.newwoodworker.com/infinqa.html

Thank you,

David Venditto
Infinity Tools
1-877-872-2487


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Jesada is also alive but I don’t think well. They have offices in the USA, Canada and Australia but not sure of their status. I did just order a catalog and we’ll see what happens.

The carving templates you were referring to are called "3D Router Carver" (incase one wants to search on it) and yes, it is back in the CMT court. And are sold by other companies such as Tool-Corral and others.

The father, Carlo, used to work for Freud, then was CEO of CMT (I think there is some connection between the two, i.e., CMT is the USA version of Freud). Carlo quit and started Jesada some 7-8 years ago. While at CMT, created the "orange" color and took that to Jesada. CMT sued and sort of won --- CMT kept the color but had to pay Carlo for "inventing" it. Jesada then went with the "white" color.
Much information can be found on this forum by searching for CMT, Jesada, Infinity and/or Venditto.

Regards, Joe

[mike lucas]

Thanks Joe!

I didn't think this old mind of mine had gone completely bonkers!

I knew of the connection, just couldn't remember exactly how it went.
Also, I think it was more like 10-12 years ago that Jesada was started. I am thinking it was in 1991 or maybe 1992.
I did not know of any connection with CMT and Freud. Much of CMT router bits were made in Italy early on, and I think that has changed some. And I know Freud is out of Italy. Or at least they were at one time.

[Joseph N. Myers]

Thanks Joe!

I didn't think this old mind of mine had gone completely bonkers!

I knew of the connection, just couldn't remember exactly how it went.
Also, I think it was more like 10-12 years ago that Jesada was started. I am thinking it was in 1991 or maybe 1992.
I did not know of any connection with CMT and Freud. Much of CMT router bits were made in Italy early on, and I think that has changed some. And I know Freud is out of Italy. Or at least they were at one time.

Mike,

Below are two excepts about Jesada.

The first is when Jesada got started, well almost .... it says that the company got started in 1991 under a different name then Jesada. So maybe we are both right, i.e., they started in 1991 (you) and the name was changed later ??? (me).= ... not that it matters.

The second is about the father working for Freud, i.e., the Freud and CMT connection.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM AN ARTICLE ON JESADA ON WHEN THE FATHER, CARLO, STARTED IT:

When Carlo decided in 1990 to start his own company, a honeymoon visit to Florida decades earlier was still very much on his mind. The beauty of Florida's Gulf coast had never been forgotten, so that was the obvious choice for the home of his new company. The forerunner of today's Jesada Tools was formed under another name in 1991.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FROM THE SON, DAVID, ON HIS FATHER AND FREUD:

My dad worked for Freud, he was the president of Freud in the United States for I think 15 or 20 years. Then he started his own company. The name of that company was Jesada Tools.

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Again regards, Joe

[thomas prevost]

First Thanks Joe for the very informative discussion.

But, I take the mag reviews with a grain of salt as the authors do very little research about the products. Be it router bits drills or saws. The testingis designed to demonstrate the best performance of the products.

But has any article supplied technical data on the products? Router bits for example. Has anyone listed the manfacturers, the grade of carbide they use, the grit of final sharpening they use, the kind of brazing they use, tolerance in manufacturing, or bought 10 bits from each and checked for balance? This would allow the purchaser to make a choice of quality vs cost. An everyday bit would need to be of the best quality, but for a one shot, a bit of reasonable quality may be what is needed.

I have not seen an article on tablesaws where 5 units of each brand were checked for table flatness, runout of arbor, vibration, repeatability of 45, 90 and 30, etc. checking for historesius(sp?)? Quality of bearings? Motor? They all cut wood and can be adjusted for miter and fence misalignment, but purchaser cannot correct for poor runout of arbor.

One has to remember the mags survive on the advertizing of the products they review. Thus it is important they only discuss trivial inconviences not major flaws as they would loose that vendor.

My vent.

[mike lucas]

First Thanks Joe for the very informative discussion.

But, I take the mag reviews with a grain of salt as the authors do very little research about the products. Be it router bits drills or saws. The testingis designed to demonstrate the best performance of the products.

But has any article supplied technical data on the products? Router bits for example. Has anyone listed the manfacturers, the grade of carbide they use, the grit of final sharpening they use, the kind of brazing they use, tolerance in manufacturing, or bought 10 bits from each and checked for balance? This would allow the purchaser to make a choice of quality vs cost. An everyday bit would need to be of the best quality, but for a one shot, a bit of reasonable quality may be what is needed.

I have not seen an article on tablesaws where 5 units of each brand were checked for table flatness, runout of arbor, vibration, repeatability of 45, 90 and 30, etc. checking for historesius(sp?)? Quality of bearings? Motor? They all cut wood and can be adjusted for miter and fence misalignment, but purchaser cannot correct for poor runout of arbor.

One has to remember the mags survive on the advertizing of the products they review. Thus it is important they only discuss trivial inconviences not major flaws as they would loose that vendor.

My vent.

Most reviews (Of all kinds, including auto, tools, ect.ect..) Is written by people that know very little about what they doing the review on. Chances are the information given with router bit reviews, is information that anyone is privy too.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

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I do not even give magazine reviews a second thought! Most is so far off, it’s pitiful! <o></o>