First shop: to Festool or not to Festool

[Greg Portland]

Here is my dilemma, chances are that whatever house I end-up buying I will not have a lot of space for a dedicated shop.

I try to give the following advice to every new hobby woodworker who asks me about tools ->

1) There are two ways to work with wood. The first is moving the wood through the tool and the second is moving the tool over the wood. With the first option, you will need room for at least 2x the length of your longest workpiece (due to infeed and outfeed space). Some woodworkers accomplish this by moving their tools around or opening garage doors. With the second option, you will not be moving the wood much at all, you will be moving the tools across the wood. You will only need 1x the length of the workpiece using this system. The Festool system as well as handtools are example of this work style. IMO, for smaller shops the second option makes far most sense. In your case where you do not even have a large door opening I would consider it a requirement.
2) Don't buy a tool until you actually need it.
3) There are often multiple ways to complete a given woodworking operation with different tools.

[Eiji Fuller]

Definitely get some festool. But no way will anything replace a cabinet saw. If you were going to start with just one shop tool I would vote for a cabinet saw. So versatile and accurate. Sure you can do sheet goods with the track saw but you'll be sacrificing accuracy and efficiency. I don't mind that sacrifice in the field but not in the shop.

[Alexander Prikhodko]

Whoa, tons of great advice. Thanks a bunch guys!

It seems that the overwhelming suggestion is to stay away from the MFT/ TS55/ Bosch combo and try to find space for a proper cabinet saw. I think I will wait until we buy the place, and see how much room I have to play with, and make my decision then.

In the meantime, I will focus on getting other items that I will need for general home improvement and my woodworking hobby. Here is a quick list, please let me know if I omitted anything important:

Have so far:
- Numerous small essentials: Hammers, screwdrivers, sockets, wrenches, rulers, levels, etc
- A bunch of DeWalt 18 volt tools: Jigsaw, Circular Saw, Sawsall, Hammer Drill
- Fein Multimax
- Dremel 8200
- Cadex 23 gauge pinner
- Small DeWalt compressor

Need to get still:
- Sliding Compound Miter Saw, most likely a Bosch or a Dewalt
- Sander, leaning towards the Festool RO 150 FEQ
- Fein Turbo II Shopvac
- Dovetail jig
- Biscuit joiner
- Kreg Jig
- 16 Gauge Finish Nailer
- Router (s)

Will get later, because of space issues:
- Table Saw, really want a SawStop
- Jointer
- Planer

Someone asked why I am buying these tools before I buy the house. The answer is simple, me and my fiancée decided to wait until we are married before we make this purchase. Furthermore, she is getting ready to finish Law School, so her additional income will be a big help. Finally, by relying on all of the great information available on this forum, I am trying to save a little bit of money by buying these tools used and ahead of time, instead of paying full retail price and buying them when the need arises. I tried to focus on only essential tools, that as a DIYer I will need regardless. Furthermore, if I buy something that I do not use I can re-sell without taking a big loss, since I bought used in the first place.

Thanks again for everyone’s recommendations!

[Matt Day]

Hold off on the dovetail jig until you really need it (if you end up needing it at all that is). I have one and used it when I built a dresser that has 6 drawers and it came in handy. Other than that project I haven't used it at all.

[Scot Ferraro]

If you have a line on an MFT/3 for $400, I would jump on it. Festool is a great system and this is one key component. It will not replace the need for a workbench, especially if you use hand tools, but it really does enhance the use of Festool tools and it gives a great way to crosscut accurately and clamp your work in a variety of places. Since space is going to be an issue, buy a good bandsaw. This is much more versatile than a table saw IMHO and properly tuned up, it will rip very accurately and you can use it for all kinds of joinery. Use the tracksaw for crosscuting and working with sheet goods. Since you might be working inside, dust collection is critical and Festool has you covered there. Buy a good dust collector for the bandsaw and any other stationary tools you acquire. I would also invest in a good jointer/planer such as the Hammer A331 or something comparable. You really need a good way to flattening and mill lumber. Combined with a bandsaw, tracksaw and other portable tools, I do not think that there will be much that you cannot tackle. If you end up having space for a table saw, then I would get one too as it does make certain operations fast and accurate. I have just ventured into the Festool world over the last 18 months and I have been thinking that I might sell my table saw at some point to acquire more floor space. I am not a professional where time is money so if it takes me a little longer to do something it is no big deal. Having the real estate back that the TS takes up would make for a more pleasant shop.

Scot

[Ray Newman]

Will the Fein Shop Vac be adequate dust collection??....

[Christopher Stahl]

I'm going to be the devils advocate here and say you could get away with just an MFT and TS55. While I have a large shop where space is not an issue, I could certainly survive without my Unisaw, if I had to. I probably use my MFT as much as my table saw and I can make repeatable, accurate cuts. Heck, if you had two MFTs you really be in good shape. I see them used all the time. I use my TS55 to cut down sheet goods on some blue board before even taking them into the shop. At that point, they will be down to a size you could use on an MFT. Buy yourself a decent bandsaw and you'll have a great set up.

The MFT is a powerful system. There are a couple websites dedicated to teaching people how to make the most of the MFT. Do a google search.

[Michael Schneider]

There are many options that will work for you. You might take a peek at.

http://www.eurekazone.com/content/ez-one

Have fun setting up your shop. You can have fun and cut wood with many setups.

Take care,
Michael

[John Coloccia]

re: space and everything else

I find that the biggest impediment to getting projects done isn't space for stationary tools but space for assembly and layout. I'm in the get a nice TS and build a good assembly table/outfeed table/storage around it. I wish I had done that but my shop is centered around making instruments. Now that I'm moving into other things like furniture, the lack of flat table tops for assembly really makes the job 10 times harder than it should, and unfettered access to all of my tools does not make up for it in the slightest.

[Joe Jensen]

I have been an active WW for over 30 years. IF I were forced into and small space, and knowing what I've learned over the past 30 years, I would go with the Festool system.

Pros;
- Fantastic build quality, lack of vibration, and smoothness
- Amazing dust collection, I've owned lots of tools and they are best in every tool category
- Really well integrated system. All the tools work together and share things like the MFT and rails.

Cons;
- Price

You would want and MFT, parallel fence setup, Saw, router, a couple of sanders.

the other things that are essential if you are working solid wood, are a jointer and planer. Many will tell you how you can get by with a planer only and a sled, but having done that, ITS PAINFULL.

[Greg Portland]

It seems that the overwhelming suggestion is to stay away from the MFT/ TS55/ Bosch combo and try to find space for a proper cabinet saw.

Most people are just telling you to buy a cabinet saw because that is the standard thinking (touted by magazines and pros with larger shops). You should really stop and think about your work space and how you plan to accomplish work. As I mentioned in my earlier post, a table saw will take 2x the length of your workpiece + the saw size. For a cabinet saw, this is going to be in the range of 19' (for a 8' board) and that is before you squeeze your body between the rear wall and the wood. With hand tools or a Festool style system you will only need ~10' of space (8' workpiece plus some breathing room). Note that Dewalt and other companies sell similar tracksaw options as Festool.

[Ralph Okonieski]

I purchased several Festool tools because my basement shop is impractical to carry 4'x8' sheets or even long boards to. I rough cut items in the garage and take the components to the shop for final cutting. I wrestled with the decision to buy the MFT and finally decided yes. For my purposes, the MFT has been one of the best if not the best tool I have. It is great for clamping panels flat. It is great for holding and clamping in general. I have a tablesaw but its use has dropped a lot since the Festool. Could I do without it? Probably not, because the Festool is not handy for me to rip with. I'm not saying its bad at it, just that for my situation there are more convenient.

Should you get the Festool? Tough decision. Think through how you will work. I'm sure you won't regret it.

I've never used Eurekazone tools or the Dewalt track system but I'm sure they will work well also. I have a wide range of brands, buying what I think is the best value.

There have been lots of good advice. I'm not sure any choice you make would be bad, just adapt and move on. That's just part of woodworking.

[Van Huskey]

Forget the home theater. Buy a couple of iPhones and headphones and build a shop. Once you start you'll be hooked. You'll spend much more time in the shop then the home theater. Face it, what's on TV -- nothing. What movies are there -- garbage. So, with the shop, you can make beautiful things for you, your family, friends and who knows, maybe you'll sell stuff and make piles of dough.

Or, maybe not.

Blasphemy! A real man needs both, period.

For the space challenged the Festool route is an excellent way to go along with the Bosch TS. IF you can muster a little more room a short rip cabinet saw on a mobile base is a BIG step up.

[Alexander Prikhodko]

No way am I am going to skip the home theater. There is nothing like 120 inches of projector screen goodness, and some serious wattage for a great soundtrack

Based on everyone’s responses it is becoming clear that there is no right or wrong methods for setting up a small shop, just personal preference. Over the last couple of days I have been doing a lot of thinking and research, and I decided to hold off on buying the MFT/ TS55 combo.

I was looking over a number of cabinet table saws, and I noticed that the depth of the tool varies from 33-36 inches. So potentially, when not in use, I could position the saw against a wall and still park a car in a one car garage.

I was thinking of building the shop around mobile surfaces and multi-purpose workstations. For example, I could build in a router into the extension wing of the cabinet saw. With the fences removed and the table saw blade and router lowered, this would double-up as a great assembly table/ bench. When working on a project I would simply wheel the table saw into the middle of the garage, hook-up power and dust collection, and I am good to go. Perhaps I could build a few smaller tables on wheels; these could double-up as additional work surfaces or serve as out-feeds for the table and miter saws.

Some food for thought…

[Justin Bukoski]

Go the festool route. More and more, my table saw is an assembly table and the place my router table is hooked to.

In addition buy some good hand planes. Start with a low angle jack and a block plane along with a set of card scrapers and go from there. To me, a table saw is a tool that works faster but not necessarily better.