Woodworking shows....you got to love them. But.......

[Roger Bullock]

Woodworking shows....you got to love them. I'm always amused watching the demonstrators but more so the in watching the buying public at one of these demonstrations. I don't know what this guy is selling http://www.wimp.com/bandsawmagic/ be it blades, guides, or something else but my guess is that he sold at least one to someone that was watching.

Whatever he is selling may be the best there is or not, but here is my take on these demonstrations. What the general public don't see is the machine is setup and tuned to perfection. Most likely this goes beyond the typical home shop setup to include upgraded wheels, belts, motors, guides, new sharp blades of the best quality, and any other mechanical advantage that can be gained. Also look at the wood, not sure what it is but looks to be very soft and easy to cut. Couple all these factors together along with the fact that this guy has probably cut out this project hundreds if not thousands of times.

I have been going to our local areas woodworking show for several years and last year I brought along a fellow woodworking buddy. I explained the above but the power of the demonstrations were too much for him so he purchased a few items. Later in the year I asked how they were working out.....well better than what he had prior to the show but no way near what he had expected.

I must confess that I too have fallen in the past to the power of the demonstration only to have less than what was expected results once used in my home shop. I must also confess that my machine tune up schedule was almost non-existent in my woodworking beginning and not up to the frequency and tolerances it should be today, but I am better than before. I must also confess that my second attempt is usually is better than my first and if there is a third, it gets better still. I must also confess to buying tools to make myself a better woodworker but want to pass the learning curve for that tool and start at the top.

How about you guys....have you ever been overcome by the power of the demonstration, been guilty of wanting to bypass the learning curve, guilty of poor machinery tune-up or maintenance, or purchased the latest and greatest tool only to have less than desired results due to all the above?

[Curt Harms]

It's related to the "If I had Norm's shop/tools I could make stuff as good as he does". It's easy to discount the skill required for tasks. I think when it comes to manual tasks most of us do better on our 10th time doing a task than we do on our 1st try. What these demos promise is that buying my geegaw will give you expert results without the practice to develop expert skills. The demonstrator has had to practice to develop expert skills. And optimizing tools and materials don't hurt either. I'll bet most of us fell into this trap when starting out.

[John Williamson]

With any demo I take it with a grain of salt knowing that the person has probably done it hundreds of times. I have made a couple of purchases after watching one but it was for items that I had an interest in before I saw the demo.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

It's not a problem for me. There aren't any woodworking shows within 300 miles and I've never been to one. Somehow at 1:00 a.m., I've managed to disregard the Fein infomercials.

[Rick Boyett]

Ahh, I remember that demo. That is at the Carter Products booth. They sold A LOT of their bandsaw guides that day. While I totally agree with Roger's comments it should be noted that Carter bandsaw guides are actually really good products. I don't think you'll find may negative things said about them.

[Callan Campbell]

How about you guys....have you ever been overcome by the power of the demonstration, been guilty of wanting to bypass the learning curve, guilty of poor machinery tune-up or maintenance, or purchased the latest and greatest tool only to have less than desired results due to all the above?[/QUOTE]
Umm, no, never, he said, as he tried to hide all the do-dads and latest thingies he bought at the last show or from the latest catalog. At any rate, look at it this way, if we didn't try some of this stuff out, we'd never keep some people employed and in business. We're helping the woodworking community at large.... Just not our wallets

[glenn bradley]

What the general public don't see is the machine is setup and tuned to perfection.

Not to mention the apparently random sequence in which things are done that is actually choreographed to require the least effort possible. I learned this years ago watching a ShopSmith demo. The guy made it look like you could do anything with just a couple moves. I mentioned this to a shop teacher (tells you how long ago it was) and he did not discount the machine but, called the guy a trained monkey. This was not to insult the guy, just to point out that a carefully prepared sequence practiced often enough gives the appearance of ease.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Not to mention the apparently random sequence in which things are done that is actually choreographed to require the least effort possible. I learned this years ago watching a ShopSmith demo. The guy made it look like you could do anything with just a couple moves. I mentioned this to a shop teacher (tells you how long ago it was) and he did not discount the machine but, called the guy a trained monkey. This was not to insult the guy, just to point out that a carefully prepared sequence practiced often enough gives the appearance of ease.

You've hit on some of the very key items. Along with exactly the right blade and species of wood and lots and lots of repetitive practice (notice the complete lack of a pattern or line to follow). How many reindeer did he cut that day? Times all the days per year that he does the demo!

[Heather Thompson]

Ahh, I remember that demo. That is at the Carter Products booth. They sold A LOT of their bandsaw guides that day. While I totally agree with Roger's comments it should be noted that Carter bandsaw guides are actually really good products. I don't think you'll find may negative things said about them.

Rick,

I have to respectfully disagree, that is Adam Sandoval and the video states they are selling tires and blades, looks like the Olson booth to me. Alex Snodgrass is the front man for Carter Products, his style is completely different and I have to say his reindeer are much nicer IMHO. This is a YouTube link to Alex doing a demo for the Carter Stabilizer and no it is not at a woodworking show but definately shows his style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gmz...eature=related

To the original post, Roger I guess that I am the odd duck in that I understand that the first time is to get the basic idea of what to do, the second time makes me more comfortable with the process. I fully embrace the idea that you can not buy craftmanship, it is learned by repeating the process. I took a six week class at Rosewood Studio in 2005, the primary focus was with hand tools, one of the students there attended a two week program then returned for another session as I was finishing my program. They approached my bench as I was putting a bevel on the tabletop I was finishing, they commented that it looked like I had been doing this for my whole life.
I do agree that the general public will buy the next greatest thing in the hope that they will be the next James Krenov, not going to happen.

The best tools in the world will not make a great craftsman nor will less than perfect tools stop a great craftsman, see Mark Crenshaw on this site with one of his custom guitar builds, his main power tools are ShopSmith. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-PRS-Custom-22

Heather

[Jeff Duncan]

I don't get to many WW shows but I think a great example of your general idea is aftermarket router tables. It seems like these are the new must have gadgets
for the home shop.
I built my router table out of scrap materials and use PC 690's in it. They have nice visible 1/64" increments and can be fine tuned just by a little twist one way or the other. These days I hear more and more of guys buying big 3 hp routers and mounting them to fancy anodized aluminum plates that set into a top with even more nifty add-ons, likely approaching the cost of a low end shaper! Does it give any better quality of cut than my little shop built table? Does it work faster or cleaner for all the added expense? Or is it marketing hype?

Now don't get me wrong I love tools and have a shop stuffed full of them. But I do try to justify the expense of a tool or product. Most of the gadget stuff I pass right on by, however I do confess to buying one product at a show a few years back. I bought one of those coping jigs on a whim. It was short money and of course worked like magic in the operators hands. I did get a fair amount of use out of it. But never could get it quite as good as the guy at the show.

good luck,
JeffD

[Lee Schierer]

I've purchased items at woodworking shows and I would say that I'm about 60% satisfied with the performance of said purchases in my shop. As I can recall, I bought a Delta Bandsaw, Kreg Jig, Grip Tite feather boards, some Viper router bits and a Dubby sled at various woodworking shows. Only the Dubby sled and Viper bits have been a disappointment. I did see a lot of demos on stuff that was pure gimmick, made to reduce the thickness of your wallet and unlikely to make you a better woodworker.

[David Weaver]

I avoid demonstrations. I've always gone to woodworking shows looking for certain companies, and have bought from them at shows for discounts, but I was already headed their way, anyway.

Mic on head and repetitive this or that (dovetail gadget or doweling gadget stuff) and i'm headed the other way, you are never going to see enough about the tool to know if it does anything good other than the demonstration being done.

The only demonstration that ever wowed me was at the martin booth, the t60 prexision. I'm not much of a power tool user, but I'm darned sure it's the best way to spend my buddy's money so that I can go over to his shop and use it. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to have been as swayed as I was.

[Roger Bullock]

I agree with Heather, the best tools in the world will not make a great craftsman nor will less than perfect tools stop a great craftsman. I also found humor in some of the other comments along with total agreement. We all get better at this with time as we should, practice might not make me perfect but does allow me to turn out better projects. Like most, I am somewhat a tool junkie too in that I don't think I will ever get enough tools. I do try to do a little research prior to making WW purchases and have found this forum a very useful resource for research.

Something beginning woodworkers or for that matter, all of us, should ask ourselves prior to making purchases to buy ourselves into being better woodworkers is are we allowing our machines to work for us as they should? After experiencing a little burn out on the table saw instead of running out for a new blade, I will spend a little time cleaning pitch from my old blade and perform a quick checkup to see if I need a minor tune-up.

Now if I can only follow my own advise.....our local WW show is coming up.

[Van Huskey]

Rick,

I have to respectfully disagree, that is Adam Sandoval and the video states they are selling tires and blades, looks like the Olson booth to me. Alex Snodgrass is the front man for Carter Products, his style is completely different and I have to say his reindeer are much nicer IMHO. This is a YouTube link to Alex doing a demo for the Carter Stabilizer and no it is not at a woodworking show but definately shows his style.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gmz...eature=related



Heather

I had the same discussion on the other thread with bandsaw magic as the title. Alex is not as fast as Adam as he talks as he is doing it, pitching the stabilizer, he is the patent holder. One can get the pattern on Carters website if anyone is interested.


As to the OP I have been lucky to not get fully caught since I am a skeptic. The products I have bought after seeing demos usually do what I expect them to, make some process easier or more precise but not endow me with the skills of the demonstrator. One member oft remarks here that it is the Indians not the arrows, but in reality it is both. Had the Indians had warped arrows with poor fletching Custer may have had another stand. We must not forget the Indians that developed and produced the arrows, though in todays world the Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapaho would probably be outsourcing to China...

I agree that tools don't make a craftsman BUT good quality tools and machines do make the road to being a great craftsman quicker and more pleasant.

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't think I've ever watched a demo at any wood show I've gone to.

I have attended 1 hour seminars, which can be educational. After building A&C furniture for more than a decade I learned at one seminar that you can make A&C furniture using pocket screws.

I guess some day I'll pitch the hollow chisel mortiser in the bin and buy a pocket hole jig.

I have bought machinery at shows, however that's been after lots of research and only to obtain the show special pricing.

regards, Rod.