Dowels vs. Loose tenon

[Roger Pozzi]

Does anyone have a comparison or personal opinion concerning the use of the "Bead-Lock" loose tenon system as an alternative to dowel joints?
It seems to me that both would have the same basic strength with a possible slight edge given to the "Bead-Lock" just because of the overall width of the tenon as compared to the overall width of two dowels. I am wanting to eliminate any racking issues and am not concerned with shear strength.
Thank you in advance.

[Frank Drew]

Roger,

I don't know what the Bead-Lock system is, but I'd prefer a normal loose tenon to dowels, for one reason because there's more side grain gluing surface with mortise and tenon than with dowels.

[Lee Schierer]

assuming clearances are equal, joint strength is a function of glue surface area. Tenons, loose otherwise will give a joint more strength than a doweled joint due to increased surface area.

[John Nesmith]

I use the beadlock jig. In fact, I'm building some cabinet doors with it right now. Inexpensive, easy to use, and plenty strong. You can read a review here.

[Jeff Duncan]

I also prefer loose tenons to dowels for the additional glue surface area. Also with a loose tenon you have the ability to leave a bit of play say 1/16" +/- in the mortise length to allow for easier assembly. With dowels everything has to be dead on.
Don't know much about the beadlock system so can't help you there.
good luck,
JeffD

[Ray Newman]

In another life during another time, I employed dowels in joints, but finally gave when the quality of dowel stock became noticeably substandard and quality hardwood dowels harder to locate.

A few years ago,I built soem shop cabinets.Loking for a quick an easy alternative to tradtional M&T joints for the cabinet doors, I bought the ‘basic’ Bead-Lock kit. It works very well. Joints are strong.

[John TenEyck]

Loose tenons for me, as well, most often using a horizontal router 2-axis mortising machine I made. Fast, clean, and precise, and much easier on end grain than drilling.

[Kevin Stockwell]

assuming clearances are equal, joint strength is a function of glue surface area. Tenons, loose otherwise will give a joint more strength than a doweled joint due to increased surface area.

How do you figure that? With my Dowelmax, I can put almost any arrangement of dowels on the face of the joint with as much surface area as I desire--one row, two rows, staggered, etc. The tests on the Dowelmax site show its strength vs. others.

[michael case]

No question. Tenons loose or traditional. A dowel has good shear strength. I use them in bed where the rail and post are meant to be disassembled. Never a problem. BUT this is because a bolt holds the joint together and the dowel is only for shear strength. In a glued joint they are initially ok. But if you think about the glue contact of say a rail into a leg its 90% end grain and will and fail over time.

[glenn bradley]

I'm with Frank and Lee in preferring the greater long grain surface area.

[Don Dorn]

I'm a Dowelmax owner too and it certainly lives up to its accuracy claim. However, I still find it difficult to believe that even multiple dowels hold up as well as M&T joints. In dowel's defense - Krenov seemed to favor them and I haven't heard of any of his pieces coming apart. Lastly - if you cut into a dowel, you would have end grain, but as they are used - aren't they long grain?

[Glenn Vaughn]

Somehow the premise that a Beadlock loose tenon has more glue surface than dowels does not make sense to me. Using 4 3/8" dowels (what I normally do) for a joint will give me at least as much edge grain contact as a 3/8" beadlock loose tenon that has 5 beads. The dowels have 100% of the circumference in contact; the beadlock only has the ends and sides in contact.

The advantage I have seen from dowels is the precise fitting of components. USing the DowelMax I have not had any alignment issues nor have I had any squareness problems.

Someone also mentioned that with loose tenons you do not have to be exact on the depth. The same holds rue for dowels - 1/16 extra in each hole is not a propblem at all.

I have only had to take apart a couple of joints and the only way to do it was with the table saw. They hold very well.

[Roger Pozzi]

Thank you guys for the input.
I think that with my expertise (???), I'll go with the BeadLock system for now. The DowelMax is really the top of the line, and I can see it's usefulness. But,,,,, $300.00 compared to $30.00 and my needs,,,,,,,, BeadLock it is.

[Phil Thien]

Lastly - if you cut into a dowel, you would have end grain, but as they are used - aren't they long grain?

Yes, the dowel itself is, but the wood you're joining often isn't. Think of using a dowel to align boards for a panel glue up (to make a table top, for example). The holes into the edges of the boards that the dowel is inserted into are mostly end grain.

Now, I don't think it is as big a deal as people think. Even the joint torture tests that have been performed have shown that glued miter joints with no other reinforcement are incredibly strong.

Still, dowel joints suffer from this end-grain gluing weakness, as well as differential expansion/contraction cycling that has been documented in (I think) a FWW article.

None of that means dowels are bad, I personally think they're great. I just think it is important to know the limitations of any joinery method and to design accordingly.

[John Coloccia]

Dowels are loose tenons, aren't they? You can use as many dowels as you want, just like you can use as many dominoes as you want, for example, and get all the gluing area you could ever want. Assuming the quality of the loose tenon itself is comparable, I don't really think it matters (within reason) what shape the tenon is if all the cross sections are approximately the same.