Joe's hybrid in Arizona?

[Carol Reed]

I would like to see a Joe's hybrid up close and personal, so to speak. Is there someone within 4 hours of central Arizona that would show me their set-up?

Thanks.

[Mike Heidrick]

PM Sent Carol

[Carol Reed]

I'll be in your neighborhood in August. Wanna do a show and tell?

[Mike Heidrick]

Definately!! Anytime!!

[Dan Ashlin]

All said and done, about how much do you guys think it would cost to build one of these?

[Rob Wright]

I guess between $2.5 and $3k with software and old computer for a controller with the rack and pinion drive, Nema23, Vcarve Pro, and a Gecko G540 based Mach3 controller.

[Dan Ashlin]

Hmm, that's not too bad. Now i jsut need to figure out what else is involved other than "buying things" lol

[Mike Heidrick]

A VERY VERY simplistic view of what is involved. Many steps in some of the sentances but you will get the gist of the build.

Buy Joes plans and join the forum and read build logs. Get the R&P Bill of materials spreadsheet I made (on Joes forum) and get ordering.

Tools needed - a drill press or ability to drill accurately, a saw that can cut teh material for your base, a number of hand tools to sand, seal, paint everything and measure and level.

If you go unistrut, cut that and bolt up a base. You can also cut and weld up a steel base or cut and build a wooden base. Bolt on the 8020 Y. Cut prime, paint, and bolt on angle iron and unistrut bed. Bolt on rack. Square up base.
Build your controller box (we recommend a box to power and cool a gecko based controller like a G540 or other Geckos like 201s or 203s but other have used the hobbycnc controller). Install it on base or wherever it is going close enough to the cnc as your wiring will require.
Pay someone (usually a joes member like me or Joe does it too or someone close to you with any cnc machine) to cut your HDPE and MDF pieces (or buy Harrys castcnc kit - whole other realm of the build possabilities - it will replace all hdpe and MDF). Drill and tap the HDPE and assemble the Z plate and motor bearing assemblies. Assemble. prime paint the HDPE. Cut alum for carriages and assemble bearings and bushings. Install all parts in the carriages and assemble the X/Z stepper, bearings, plate, lead screw and all its parts, etc. Mount Y carriages on 8020, Slip X/Z on 8020/gantry and install that on Y carriages. Square everything up and install everything correctly. Assemble and bolt on R&P kits and steppers. Install echain. Wire wire everything to controller box through echain.
Configure computer and software. Cable computer to controller. At this point it should move. Square and test everything and tune everything. Constantly improve it and button it down.
Install home switches and install an auto Z zeroing setup. install a pendant to make jogging the machine easier. A billion other options you can do.

i am sure I left out major steps but I tried not to.

[Dan Ashlin]

So
Step 1: Buy Plans
Step 2: ?
Step 3: Profit.

lol, thanks for the info guys, I'm off to do some serious thinking.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

I think you would be hard pressed to build the Joes CNC for under 3K. Here is the rule of thumb that I have found on building a cnc. Take the cost estimates and add about 50% more to the cost.

Nothing against Joes CNC plans as I have purchased them and have many of the parts collected to build one. But I have found many of the cost to build quotes to be consistantly on the low side. Its hard to get a good cost break down for various reasons.

Based on current prices here is a list of just some of the componens needed to build this CNC
I have included Vcarv Pro as it was included in the estimate given.

Vcarv Pro 600
Mach3 $175
Electrics $600
LeadNuts $100
LEadSCrews $315
Plans $100
Couplers $80
Bearings $150
Router Mount $70
80/20 beams $276
-----------------------------
Total $2466

This still leaves all the steel parts needed (struts, angle brackets, ect)
Bearing bushings and flanges
Router
Plastic/MDF componets
Nuts/Bolts
Misc brackets and other hardware
Vacume system
Rail system (steel angle)

These may seem incidental but they are not. The nuts and bolts alone will probable total over $100

This also does not include a system based on R&P as this will also add to the cost.

Also keep in mind that Vcarve Pro is the Cam software and you still need a real cad package.
Also the older the PC the slower the cnc. A modern PC will be able to make the CNC really zip along. I would not go with anything less than a dual 2.5Ghz system.

There are also additional costs in support components. Your hold down system, Fixture system, Speed controller system, Probe system. And the list goes on.

All that said I think you should plan on $3500 as a minimum and go from there. Also another important point. This is DIY. You are going to make mistakes. There are no step by step instructions so its going to be a somewhat lengthy process. You probably will have to redo a few things along the way. This will add additonal time and cost.

[Carol Reed]

Thanks, Mike. That sounds like a plan of action. I think I have to start a log - for all the decision making. LOL!

First is exactly what I plan on making with it, and then what I might plan on making with it. That will drive the size. Then where will I put it. That will drive the shape of it. I am thinking square will be inefficient.

Off the drawing board - metaphorically speaking.

[Mike Heidrick]

Hi MichaelSV.

A couple things to update your list on.

The R&P build is cheaper than the lead screw build but not by much - You have $45 in lead screw only and one ABL - all just on the Z. You have $217 in rack if you buy pre drilled rack from Moore Gear but cheaper exists if you want to buy non drilled from McMasterCarr. The R&P kits from Ahren will run you $270 for a nema23 setup. A lot less bearings and HDPE though too. You bearing prices are up now though as many folks install 8 bearings on the X alone so the total is now 20 at $10 ea.

I definately agree $3000 to $3500 is a more realistic budgett number (espically if you want a nice controller box - that was about $400 or so by the time I was done with mine not including the $600 4 axis kit I bought from Ahren) than $2500 unless you hunt for deals on electronics (for example a 48V 10amp power supply for 445 vs the $125 12amp in the 4-axis kit). My buddy has a $2600 Joes build right now running and missing nothing - he was just very patient.

Software - When I quote $3K that is only including Mach. The drawuing and CAD/CAM software can really drive up the price.
The Spreadsheet Bill Of Materials I posted has 100% accurate prices as of May 10th, 2010 and you can download that if you want to see it.

A slower PC does not mean you CNC runs slower. Not sure where you got that from????

[Rob Wright]

A slower PC does not mean you CNC runs slower. Not sure where you got that from????

I fully agree. You want your machine controller to be as stripped down as possible - running only Mach3, not connected to the internet, and a single purpose as the machine controller. You would not want to be running your design software while, in the background, your machine is running. You are asking for trouble. The only thing the CPU speed would effect is the kernel speed of mach3. If you are trying to run a very high step multiplier with a high steps per inch, you may run out of kernel speed to be able to generate enough steps per unit at your desired speed. You then have a few options - up the kernel speed in mach if your PC can handle it, reduce your step multiplier if you are using drivers that support different micro-stepping, or change your drive method. using 16tpi screws this may become a problem, but with 2 tpi screws or rack and pinion, you can easily get 750ipm out of an old pc. I am using a PC that is at least 8 years old with a stripped down version of XP home on it. Never had a computer issue with mach3 and the Speed of the CPU. I use a separate PC for all designs in Aspire.

[Michael Simpson Virgina]

Mike I would like to download your BOM as it may come in handy for me.

With Mach 3 the kernal speed directly dictates how fast you can output the pulses to the controller. The default kernal speed of 25000Hz is ok for slower machines byt to hit the 45000Hz or 60000Hz you need a faster machine. I have a deticated dual 3Ghz machine that runs a kernal speed of 65000Hz and it can push my motors to their limit. At the 25000Hz and 35000Hz I cant drive the machine nearly as fast.

So yes CPU speed does affect the speed your CNC machine runs. That said you have to have a properly tuned machine to really utilize the higher kernal speeds in Mach.

As for the prices the only thing I was trying to get accross is that I think many tend to under estimate the cost of building a DIY machine. Local prices will dictate some of your costs as will shipping costs. There are also areas you can save if you want to skimp. May latest build used 5 start Black oxide coated lead screws. You can save $100 by going with the plain steel or spend more and buy stainless steel.

[Russ Revels]

Michael Simpson Virginia,

I believe your statement about VcarvePro being the cam software only is not quite accurate. I find that more than 90% of the things I cut on my router are or can be designed in VCarvePro. I also have Aspire but still most of my designs are 2d signs which are done with the same engine that is in VcarvePro. VcarvePro will handle just about any 2.5 d designs and cuts you want to make.

Russ