Woodworking Bench Vise Placement

[Don L Johnson]

I'm not the traditiional hand tool woodworker, so I expect the bench that I want to build (to match my style), will be wholly lacking from a "true" woodworker's perspective. I'm going to build the JackBench that has been discussed on this foreum. However, instead of the recommended Veritas Twin Screw end vise, I'm going to install a simple little GROZ R9 (Woodcraft Item #148437). My main need for a vise will be to place an item between a bench dog and the vise so that I can put clamping pressure on it to do sanding more easily. Almost all workbenches I've seen have the end vise on the end, and a vise like mine on the side. In my application, I want to put the small vise on the end so as to use it with the bench dogs. Any thoughts and/or suggestions on my idea? Thanks

[Tim Sproul]

Your idea is quite old.

In Scott Landis' Workbench book, there is someone who mounted a metal vise to all 4 sides of their bench. Chris Schwarz had covered the use of metal quick-release (or not quick release) vises as end/tail vises. It works just fine for what you want to do - hold work so you can sand it.

[Terry Beadle]

The Groz will do what you want but the picture of it on Groz's site doesn't show a riser. That would mean you need to make a 1 1/2 thick ( about ) facement that you can drill a 3/4 inch hole into and make your own bench dog to go into it. Otherwise you could make the outside facement higher than your bench top and use it but you'd lose some joint work postions.

LV has a bench surface vice that may do what you want more easily. There is also the new Veritas Inset Vice ( http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/pag...19&cat=1,41659 ) that would really do the job nicely.

IMO the quick release vice by Groz would be better used on the bench in the traditional clamping position rather than used for a tail vice position.

If you decide to do a tail vice ( pretty expensive but worth it ) I recommend the LN tail vice. The others are a real challenge to get mounted and properly supported IMO.

[michael osadchuk]

Don,
A steel vise will work fine for your main purpose of being a doghole vise as well has functioning as a vise to hold stock for edge planing, sawing, etc.
As already mentioned the specific vise you are looking at does not have pop up steel riser on the outside edge of the front face of the vise.... this is a bit more convenient than inserting a bench dog in a hole on a fat wood facing to the outside steel vise face and, perhaps more important, gives you about another inch capacity as doghole vise.

I have have a couple of the smallest size of authentic Record quick release vises on either end of my long workbench (and a Veritas twin screw on one end) and love the quick release vises......... I think the smallest or smaller size is quite adequate as a regular vise in terms of clamping capacity and clamping force.......I suggest you read the reviews on all the quick release steel vises as a quick scan of reviews suggests that on some the quick release feature is not that reliable.

Do try to download the mounting instructions prior to buying and buy the vise before you build the bench for easier installation.... fitting a vise to a bench in progress is easier than retro fitting...

Don't be concerned about what you see as the enthusiasm given to the traditional end and wagon vises..... this enthusiasm in the woodworking press and forums is relatively new and probably represents one of a recurrent cycle of what is trendy.... the ordinary bench vise is certainly more versatile

good luck

michael

[Rob Lee]

Don -

I think this is a very sound approach. Since the vise you mention is essentially surface mounted, you'll have no issues changing vise styles or location should you decide you need to at some point in the future.

Cheers -

Rob

[Prashun Patel]

I've been reading the Landis book. Good read! Over the years, I've really come to appreciate the simplicity of Ian Kirby's style of workbench. It's simple, and can handle most tasks very well.

His style features a front vise only.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

The chief difficulty I have with using a metal vise like that as an end vise is that the vise will rack if the dog holes are not centered on the vise hardware, and if the dog holes are centered on the vise hardware they are far away from the front edge which is obnoxious when one wants to work with thin parts. For example planing grooves for box bottoms on a bench like that can be a pain in the butt. If you work around these issues somehow then it works fine.

[Jim Matthews]

I find having two vises on adjacent sides useful, but not the only clamping method.

A bench hook is really versatile, and can be placed anywhere on your benchtop.
It need not cover the entire bench, to handle large stock. You need only have a spacer to support larger pieces in conjunction with the hook.

If your bench has an overhang, all the way around, simple light duty bar clamps can do yeoman's work. You can put them where you like. A fixed vise is well, fixed.

I'm in the process building two sawbenches, over which I will suspend a torsion box.
No vise involved. <http://www.finewoodworking.com/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=31729>

[glenn bradley]

I see no problem with that approach. I have the same style vice on front/left and end/front-edge. I use the end vise as you describe.

[michael osadchuk]

The chief difficulty I have with using a metal vise like that as an end vise is that the vise will rack if the dog holes are not centered on the vise hardware, and if the dog holes are centered on the vise hardware they are far away from the front edge which is obnoxious when one wants to work with thin parts. For example planing grooves for box bottoms on a bench like that can be a pain in the butt. If you work around these issues somehow then it works fine.

I don't disagree that ideally the center of clamping pressure should be centered on the vise's hardware/thread rods to minimize racking - putting side pressure on the mechanism - but when using a metal vise as a doghole vise, the clamping pressure one typically uses is usually modest and no where near what one would use to hold a workpiece between the faces of the vise...... for a number of reasons beyond maximum clamping pressure not being needed: risk of the relatively small area of the bench dogs denting the ends of workpiece and, in the case of wood pieces that are relatively thin to start with distorting the wood....

just a thought

michael

[george wilson]

I use wooden dogs myself. I don't see why thin leather faces couldn't be added to the dogs to avoid denting the ends of the wood,unless you are planing wood so thin that the top edge of the leather faced dog might round over a bit and not hold. By then,though,you need to find other ways to clamp the wood,or just save a set of nice,crisp wooden dogs for that purpose.

[john brenton]

George,

How do you support very thin pieces for planing, like for example the sides, back and soundboard of your guitars?

I had taken a piece of pine and planed it, leaving a very thin lip on the edge to act as a stop...is that the way you do it, or do you have a better method? I've made it work, but it will only work WELL if the piece is already flat. If there is any curvature to the laminate it just shoots right over the stop.

I use wooden dogs myself. I don't see why thin leather faces couldn't be added to the dogs to avoid denting the ends of the wood,unless you are planing wood so thin that the top edge of the leather faced dog might round over a bit and not hold. By then,though,you need to find other ways to clamp the wood,or just save a set of nice,crisp wooden dogs for that purpose.