New Saw Handle.

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi all. Some of you may remember the 1st dovetail saw I made up.



I wasn't totally happy with the hang angle of the saw handle so decided to make a new one. Changing tack I decided to make this a closed handle, 4 finger grip, clear finish, and made out of jarrah. This was the basic shape prior to contouring.



And this is the final result. All hand shaped.





The handle will need a final buffing in a couple of days when the lacquer has fully hardened . There is plenty of room to grip the handle compared to a standard dovetail saw handle. I like the feel of having the 4 fingers wrapped around the grip of the handle. The only thing I would change with the next time is increase the thickness from 23mm to 28mm.

Please feel free to add your opinions on the new handle design. Positive or negative.


Stewie.

[Andrew Gibson]

I think it looks very nice. Very interesting design and pleasing to look at. If it is comfortable to use that is all that matters.

[george wilson]

That handle will be easy to break. It has thin sections with nothing but mostly cross grain to support it.

[Jim Koepke]

Interesting rendition.

Kind of looks like a Texas Longhorn with its head tilted to one side.

jtk

[Stewie Simpson]

I think it looks very nice. Very interesting design and pleasing to look at. If it is comfortable to use that is all that matters.

Thanks for the feedback Andrew.

[Stewie Simpson]

That handle will be easy to break. It has thin sections with nothing but mostly cross grain to support it.

Hi George. There are open saw handles in use with less structural strength than this closed handle version.

Thanks for your feedback.

Stewie.

[Stewie Simpson]

Interesting rendition.

Kind of looks like a Texas Longhorn with its head tilted to one side.

jtk

Hi Jim. Kind of feel sorry for the Longhorn.

Stewie.

[george wilson]

The open handles you refer to have the grain of their wood running diagonally through the section that connects them to the handle,making them strong,as you seem to have done on your last handle. With your long,S curve parts,so thin and sinuous,it is not possible to have that strength. Yours has a lot of nearly cross grain in places. You should look carefully at this aspect. Also,back saws are usually made for a 3 finger grip with 1 finger laying down the side of the saw to help the sense of directionality. Your handle places the top finger too high to allow that.

Anyway,you asked for both types of feedback. If you don't want to heed mine,that's o.k.. What do I know anyway?

[Stewie Simpson]

The open handles you refer to have the grain of their wood running diagonally through the section that connects them to the handle,making them strong,as you seem to have done on your last handle. With your long,S curve parts,so thin and sinuous,it is not possible to have that strength. Yours has a lot of nearly cross grain in places. You should look carefully at this aspect. Also,back saws are usually made for a 3 finger grip with 1 finger laying down the side of the saw to help the sense of directionality. Your handle places the top finger too high to allow that.

Anyway,you asked for both types of feedback. If you don't want to heed mine,that's o.k.. What do I know anyway?

Now dont be like that George. I have deep admiration for the work you have accomplished. I will take your advise onboard when I build the next saw handle.

Regards Stewie.

[george wilson]

It would have been better for you to say that to begin with,Stewie. The answer sounded like a summary dismissal of my helpful and correct observation,which you asked for. If I had to make that handle,I'd suggest sawing the wood up into laminations and orienting the layers so that the cross grained portions would be minimized,though I would not like to make a laminated handle,either.
I realize that it can be difficult to see something wrong with a project you have just put time and energy into,but it has happened to me plenty of times. That's how you develop.

[Marv Werner]

Stewie,

I admire the fact that you got outside the proverbial box to make that handle. I tend to think in those terms also. Tradition is not always the best way to go. Tradition can be downright boring and repetitious. Replicas are quite common and usually not made exactly as the originals. If they were, it would be impressive. Otherwise, they are just semi-copies with little or no imagination.

What I see in your handle is a lot of work and creativity and I would not say anything to discourage you from continuing to come up with more far out designs.

I offer only one suggestion.... it can be deceiving when drawing the shape of the handle and then rough cutting it to shape. I have found it best to make the handgrip and other thin sections bigger than they need to be. Then when you do the actual shaping, you have plenty of wood to work with. A section will look big enough, but when you add the radius's, they suddenly look and can be too small.

So, keep up the good work and surprise us with another one-of-a-kind creation.

[John Powers]

I stay out of the discussion till it gets into something I know about. Tradition. My guess is that the saw handle was perfected 250 years ago, give or take. I think the last big step forward in the classical guitar was scalloped bracing 100 years ago. Some things are just as good as they're going to get. The grey ghost and the henryville special have been catching trout for 100 years. The grain orientation is good info. My old Stanley 3 and 5 totes both have cracks right across the middle I repaired. How come the grain isn't up and down?

[george wilson]

I am not against innovation. It depends upon how well it's done,doesn't it ? I have the new LV art deco block plane,and like its looks just fine. I don't like all old things,nor do I like all new things.

I will say that it would be VERY rare for a person to suddenly dream up a design that is better than those which were developed over many years by experienced professionals,and used by experienced professionals. People had infinitely better training in design and fine arts than most today do. I do think LV did do that with their new block plane,though.

This isn't to say that they shouldn't try. I've made some "far out" designs myself,but don't have pictures of most of the things I have made.

I was PAID to copy tools in the museum,and if I see one I like a whole lot,I might make one for myself,especially with the very high prices that rare items like the half size salesman's sample smooth plane(which I made from memory) go for. Not being wealthy,I won't drop $5000.00 or $10,000.00 more on such an item.

Making reproductions is not a worthless or unimaginative pursuit. It teaches good design principles that can still be applied to other works,provided you have the eye to copy GOOD stuff to begin with. Then,you have to have developed the eye and skill to pull it off. Making a copy of a good saw handle will stay in your head a LOT better than just looking at a picture of one. It gets drilled into your mind more slowly and more permanently than browsing .

Figuring out how to reproduce a giant cider press with a 12" diameter screw,with 2" wide threads can be pretty imaginative,especially how to thread the hole,when large screws were made by specialists with teams of workers who could muster the power to turn large taps. Especially if you can't spend a year making it. Reproducing the 1802 Chamblee surveyor's compass in the FAQ section was also challenging. I had to make the number stamps and the level vials,too,and do the dead silver plating in the compass rose area. Making the 17th.C. inlaid Italian guitar actually took many years of prep work and drawing background just to draw a decent design,let alone cut it out accurately.

When taking on advanced projects like those, you are attempting to duplicate what the best specialists of the old days of craftsmanship were doing after strict apprenticeships that lasted many years. That is a bit of an order to carry out. It all takes skill and a lot of imagination.

I say get a good classical education in design,then venture out from there. I think it's like developing a good vocabulary and writing skills before trying to write a novel.

[Stewie Simpson]

It would have been better for you to say that to begin with,Stewie. The answer sounded like a summary dismissal of my helpful and correct observation,which you asked for. If I had to make that handle,I'd suggest sawing the wood up into laminations and orienting the layers so that the cross grained portions would be minimized,though I would not like to make a laminated handle,either.
I realize that it can be difficult to see something wrong with a project you have just put time and energy into,but it has happened to me plenty of times. That's how you develop.

Hi George. Far from dismissing your suggestions, I have already started designing a new handle using your feedback as a basis to work with.. The areas you rightly identifed as being too thin will be made thicker.
Is can be easy sometimes to focus on shape as the only fundamental importance, and forget to consider the limitations of strength bound by the raw material being used.


Will keep you posted.

Stewie.

[Stewie Simpson]

Stewie,

I admire the fact that you got outside the proverbial box to make that handle. I tend to think in those terms also. Tradition is not always the best way to go. Tradition can be downright boring and repetitious. Replicas are quite common and usually not made exactly as the originals. If they were, it would be impressive. Otherwise, they are just semi-copies with little or no imagination.

What I see in your handle is a lot of work and creativity and I would not say anything to discourage you from continuing to come up with more far out designs.

I offer only one suggestion.... it can be deceiving when drawing the shape of the handle and then rough cutting it to shape. I have found it best to make the handgrip and other thin sections bigger than they need to be. Then when you do the actual shaping, you have plenty of wood to work with. A section will look big enough, but when you add the radius's, they suddenly look and can be too small.

So, keep up the good work and surprise us with another one-of-a-kind creation.

Hi Marv. Well thought advise. Thankyou for your ongoing support with the direction I am trying to go.