Tenon saw dilemma, Wenzloff or Bad Axe?

[Tim Null]

I am looking for a large tenon saw. I am considering the large Bad Axe, known as the Jack Saw, the Harvey Pearce large tenon from Wenzloff or the large tenon Weenzloff from Lee Valley. Any thoughts? Bad Axe will take the longest, and I am starting a bench build and would like to use it for the tenons. I can wait, but if the saws perform the same, then I would rather not. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Chris Vandiver]

You might also want to consider the 16" thin plate(.015) tenon saw from Lie Nielsen. Very nice saw and reasonably priced.

[David Keller NC]

Tim - There isn't a "best" one. What this comes down to is your preferences in styling - Bad Axe makes an early 20th century American-style "Disston" saw; Wenzlof supplies L-V with a late 19th, early 20th century British-style saw, while the Harvey Peace saw is a late 19th century, small-maker American style saw. The L-N design is based on mid-19th century British designs.

Any of them will perform superbly; it's largely a matter of taste and what your intended use is (capacity under the back, for example).

[Tim Null]

Thanks for the input guys.

So is there no real difference in how they will cut? I will be using it for the bench build, with large tenons. I already have the LV carcass saws, the Grammercy sash and a Wenzloff pane filed crosscut.

I want a saw for larger tenon work and the occasional small rip. Any real difference in performance between the styles?

Thanks again.

[David Weaver]

What does the "jack" mean. Is it filed with combination teeth? Or is it just rip teeth with a little bit of fleam on them?

I wouldn't worry too much about which one you get, as long as there is enough space under the back. Even if you get a rip saw, if you need it to crosscut in a pinch (though you shouldn't unless you have a deep cut), it'll have teeth fine enough to do that without making a mess of the work.

I have no experience with anything other than mike's kits, but as David says, really any saw that is made of good materials and is set up properly will be fine.

[Jason Chestnut]

Wow. What a dilemma to have. 10 years ago, you'd be trolling eBay, hoping to score a saw that could be rehabbed. We really do live in exciting times for hand tool woodworking.

[David Weaver]

Yeah, and thanks to you "new saw buyers", I can get old ones for cheap on ebay with a little bit of care.

the older saws do have some quirks - if they're really old, they often need significant work on the teeth, sometimes some care on the wood, and some finagling with the back to get them "straighter", but you can do that when you get a classic saw for $20-$40.

[Tim Null]

Thanks guys.

The Jack Saw is filed "hybrid" and according to reviews is like a jack plane, does may things well. I saw the review by Chris on the Lie Neilsen, looks really good and the price is very good as well. May go that route.

[Joel Goodman]

I believe the LN has a thinner plate in the 16" than Mike's. In the 14" I think the LN plate is thicker. Something to consider.

[David Weaver]

I'm not exactly sure what the plate is on mike's saw, but I ordered a kit and specified a .025" plate for a 16" saw.

I know this is often disputed (one way or the other) but my .025" plate 16" saw cuts much faster than a smaller lighter saw that I have with a .020" plate, both freshly sharpened rip with 5 degrees of rake. The issue, i'm pretty sure, is that the thicker saw has a taller and thicker plate and a heavier spine.

to me (and this is only an opinion) there is a difference between how fast the saw cuts and how much work you're actually doing. You will do less work with a thinner plate, but I don't know that you will really cut much or any faster. It would be easier to tell if you could if you use one of the LN thin saws and one of the LN thick saws next to each other on the same piece of wood and count strokes.

I do not worry about a thin plate on saws that large, you're not going to be cutting dovetails or tiny close-in work with them, anyway, and if you can saw to the waste side of a line with a saw with a .015" plate, you can do it with one with a .025" plate.

It's more of an issue of buy the thin saw if it pleases you to do so, but not on the assumption that a thicker plate saw is clunky and inaccurate.

I do like the thin plates on smaller saws, though.

[Marv Werner]

Hi Chris,

I'm always a bit Leary with a large thin plate tenon saw. Once deep in the cut, if the set is not extreme, the blade will drag in the kerf and heat up and warp. The more it warps the more it drags. When the blade cools, it will go back to straight, but that doesn't help when trying to saw an accurate.

[Marv Werner]

Tim,

If you talk to Mark Harrell, ask him about thin plates and warpage. He's had some experience, not all good.

[Chris Vandiver]

Hi Marv,

I haven't had that experience with the 16" thin plate(.015)from LN. It is the best ripping back saw I have used(and the set is minimal).

[Marv Werner]

Hi Chris,

How much blade from teeth to the back? This seems to make a difference in dispelling the heat.

[Chris Griggs]

On his website Mark Harrell states that he thinks thicker plates are better for very large tenon saws that will make deep cuts. He explains that a thin plate is more likely to bind in a deep cut since it will heat up more and is therefore likely to expand (although wax will help). It's worth noting however, that he says this in reference to his huge 18" saw.

I haven't hear a bad thing about the LN 16", and may very well get one some day since it is so reasonably priced. However, if money was no object I'd get a Bad Axe just because they look so cool (yes, I want some saw bling). Also, since you already have some crosscut saws I would go with a dedicated rip over the hybrid filing. But that's just me. In the end its what you think will serve your purposes best.