Salvaged D8

[Pam Niedermayer]

What about your obsession ,Pam ??

Heh, heh. I appreciate really good tools that make my woodworking even more pleasurable, and will wax episodic about them occasionally; but it's more about writing practice than trying to proselytize.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

You are right, for years, I've focused on western style saws, but lately I've been giving pull saws some thought. I'm about to finish making what I'm calling an East-West, Push-Pull backsaw. From time to time I see a post that asked the difference between a pull saw and a push saw. My East-West saw is kind of an experiment. The handle can be mounted on either end of the plate. I have cut a few tenons with it and it works quite well, but not as aggressive on the pull stroke without applying some downward pressure on the toe end. It doesn't have the same feel as a Japanese saw, but does provide some aspects of one. The saw is not intended to be sold. It's more to satisfy my own curiosity and to build a unique saw and perhaps inspire others to make one for themselves. I don't expect the saw to become anything of great interest among woodwoorkers, mainly a conversation piece. The tooth profile is that of an ordinary western style backsaw. I'll post some pictures of it in a few days.

Look forward to the photos. As you've hinted, I don't think there's much future for such a beast; but no harm trying.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

I have had a flush cutting dowel saw for many years. It is a German one,with the handle that swings around so you can use it in either direction,depending upon where the dowel is. It has teeth that cut in either direction,but the result is that the saw does not cut well in either direction. It is perfectly sharp,too. The increased negative rake on the teeth just do not want to aggressively cut into the wood like normal saw teeth do.

Some years ago I bought what was touted as a dovetail saw, red handle, that worked that way. It is equally bad at cutting in both directions.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

From my experience turning a zona pull saw blade around after find it was loose, trying to make a push gentleman's saw, I think trying to make a saw that pushes and pulls is a lost cause. I never realized how much different the rake was on a pull saw until then. If you take a plate out of a pull saw and turn it around and try to cut with it, you can't even start the cut - the negative rake is so severe that it just digs in like a brake....

Don't know, David. I tried reversing the blade on a bow saw, and it worked well in both directions.

Pam

[Pam Niedermayer]

... There was a discussion about using pull saws last year where people were wondering if you should stand back far from the work or lean forward and have your head right over it. I don't know what the "rules" are for using pull saws, but it's easier for me, especially with the ones with no spines, to have my head straight over the work in a pull cut. Some folks really objected to that or thought it was odd.

If it's not necessary to use a saw with both hands and a feet-apart stance, I stand normally straight for pulling, only thing moving is my arm at the shoulder. In the first case, I stand way back. In the second case, I stand the length of my forearm away, more or less. I'd expect your method to seriously strain my back.

Using this method, I typically cut dovetails with two or three strokes each side (say 3/4" thick, 1" high).

Pam

[john brenton]

Might be the guar??? What did I mean by that?

Drugs are great.

[David Weaver]

Pam, what kind of blade was it and how was the tooth profile?

It was so much grab on the zona saw that it pulled the plate right out of the spine when I tried use it on the push, but that was a different type of blade - they punched the teeth with something that made them look like little hook bandsaw teeth.

[David Weaver]

Using this method, I typically cut dovetails with two or three strokes each side (say 3/4" thick, 1" high).

Pam

That is about how many I take in something soft, well or even cherry or walnut which can be sawn pretty easily with a little more persuasion on a good rip dozuki.

I shouldn't make it sound like I'm hunched over, i'm just standing almost right against the vise with my head down. One quick light stroke to get the dozuki on track and three or four strokes to get to depth. I don't know what others do, but I cut tails first and stand back to set the angle of the saw against a mark I might have or a reference guide, and then if I'm using a guide to set it, I take it away and then just cut all three tail lines going in that direction at once if I'm cutting three tails. Then turn the angle of the saw and go back the other way and cut the sides of each tail - that's the fastest way I've found to do it, and the dozuki works well enough for that I don't know if I'll ever get away from it, no matter how many dovetail saw kits I put together. I never mark tails on through dovetails, I hate spending time on layout when it's not necessary. Same method on the pins - all of the same angle first, but obviously they are marked off the tails.

I will always mark everything as little as I can get away with. It's tedious and boring.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam, what kind of blade was it and how was the tooth profile?

It was so much grab on the zona saw that it pulled the plate right out of the spine when I tried use it on the push, but that was a different type of blade - they punched the teeth with something that made them look like little hook bandsaw teeth.

If you're asking about the red reversable handle "dovetail" saw, I remember nothing more. It was about 10 years ago, and I think I threw it away, or at least put it in a place where it wouldn't bother me anymore.

Pam

[David Weaver]

No, i know what you're talking about with that one. i got one when I very first started woodworking, irwin branded saw with the offset blade and you could flip the handle to use it either way. What an awful saw! When I have something like that and i'm going to throw it away, my FIL takes it.

I meant the saw that you said pushed and pulled fine, as opposed to the one that pushed and pulled and wasn't worth having for anything.