Home Theater surround sound setup advice needed

[Larry Browning]

Hmmm, interesting. That seems like a pretty easy solution, with no vibration issues, plenty of air flow and no insulation loss. Now to just find me some r30 bat insulation without have to buy a whole roll.

Oh, and read what? I think you forgot to include the link

[Tim Morton]

The link was from a "forum"...so i didn't post it.

The info was the paragraph after i said standard fiberglass batting....it was a quote from the forum.

[Larry Browning]

Another question. Is it acceptable to splice speaker wire? One of the speaker wires in the attic may not be quite long enough to reach the speaker. It would be a lot easier to just splice the extra length I would need than to replace it with a longer wire. Of course if it is long enough then the question is moot.

[Larry Browning]

oh, ok. It now makes more since, especially after you said you had no experience with blown in insulation and then you talked about doing just that.

[hank dekeyser]

After many years and dozens of ceiling speaker installs (and warranty claims) Absolutely do not allow insulation in contact with your new speakers. The insulation used in speaker enclosures is batt type glued in place on the sides of the cabinet - The blown in insulation in your ceiling is bits and pieces laying there. Technically, for your ceiling speaker to be an "infinite baffle" enclosure, it would be basically free air behind the driver - which means open air space to the hot or cold air space in the attic- might as well just cut a hole in the wallor open a window. The idea behind using a cooler, or any other item in the attic and covering it with insulation is simple- your attic remains insulated over the speaker (hole) you just put through the ceiling. Nothing is going to "shift" or move, the insulation (probably 18-24 inches deep) simply wont allow it. Also the vapor barrier remains intact.

As to the "infinite baffle" stuff- yup its out there, there are speakers designed to perform in this condition. Personally after 30 years of home and car-fi installs I have yet to find one that compares to the sound quality of a properly designed enclosure.

[Tim Morton]

yes you can splice...i would solder and heat shrink.

[Myk Rian]

its not only hindsight...but it factually incorrect

Which part is incorrect?
Speakers in a cathedral ceiling lose channel separation.
Sub woofers are non-directional, and can be placed anywhere.

[Tim Morton]

Which part is incorrect?
Speakers in a cathedral ceiling lose channel separation.
Sub woofers are non-directional, and can be placed anywhere.

Read the thread again...you will see what the priorities are, and what the limitations are. You will also see that Larry has no desire to argue acoustics.

If you would like to discuss speaker placement i would suggest going over to AVS and have at it

[Myk Rian]

Read the thread again...you will see what the priorities are, and what the limitations are.

I did read the thread.
Larry stated in his OP;

Speaker selection and placement (especially the surround speakers) is my biggest issue at this point. Right now I am leaning toward getting in-ceiling speakers mounted in the vaulted ceiling positioned slightly behind and to the side of the seating area. At this point this seems to be my best option for the surround speakers due to hardwood floors on a slab. I have talked to some co-workers that have a similar setup that say it works well.

and my response was in direct relation to that post. (Speaker placement)
I don't see my messages as an argument, but instead see yours as one.

[Sean Nagle]

As to the "infinite baffle" stuff- yup its out there, there are speakers designed to perform in this condition. Personally after 30 years of home and car-fi installs I have yet to find one that compares to the sound quality of a properly designed enclosure.

In-ceiling and in-wall speakers are generally designed to be used "free air" (no box required). A properly executed infinite baffle subwoofer system can outperform box speakers in both SPL and sound quality.

[Tim Morton]

I don't see my messages as an argument, but instead see yours as one.

I can see that now, but i was just trying to find a way to say that i your 2 points were inaccurate to this particular discussion.

1. The subwoofer comment was just plain wrong...placing a subwoofer in various places inside a room will cause audible and measurable differences in the response curve. However in this case it is irrelevant since Larry has decided that there was really only one spot that he is able to locate his subwoofer.

2. Your comment on the channel separation ( i think you meant imaging properties ) is a valid comment, but in terms of discussing the rear channels of a 5.1 speaker set up it is not really accurate either. You were suggesting that he would want to put his rear speakers at ear level. That is the point that i was saying was inaccurate.

We discussed the pro's and cons of wall mounted or speaker stand speakers vs ceiling mounted surround speakers early on, and it was apparent that the various trade offs of each lended the choice of ceiling speakers to be a valid choice.

So i was not trying to be argumentative...i was merely trying to say that yes your points are valid in some cases, but not in this particular installation.

Sorry i did not say that better the first time.

[Larry Browning]

ok, I have spent all day setting up my new system. Whew, there was a lot to do! I think I have it all set up now except for one think that I am going to need help with.
I have a Wii game console with the component video cable. I am trying to run it thru the receiver as well so that there is just one HDMI cable attached to the TV. I managed to get the 3 video cables plugged into the receiver, but I just can't figure out where to plug in the 2 audio cables. the video shows up on the screen but no sound.

[Van Huskey]

I love A/V topics in non-A/V forums! This would have been a vastly different thread in an audiophile forum, much like woodworking questions are strange to watch in a audio forum.

RE subwoofers being non-directional it is true and false. Below a certain frequency a person can not locate a sub by sound BUT this runs into some issues in practical terms.

1. different people can locate at diferent frequencies, most people around 100 hertz and below is fine some lower some higher.

2. your bass management may FORCE some localization. With the trend toward smaller and smaller sat speakers with higher spousal acceptance factors one deals with fewer and fewer speakers that are articulate in the below 120Hz range making blending them with the sub harder and harder without asking the cub to handle 1/3 or a 1/2 octave above where you can localize them

3. without getting technical there are going to be pressure troughs and peaks all throughout an average room so placement of the sub can be critical.

My problem is I have no qualms around building a room around HT, the last house we built I spent god knows how long just finalizing the basic size and shape of the room making node chart after node chart. In the "early" days of HT and subwoofers they were viewed as more plug and play today it is much more of a science mixed with a healthy dose of black art.


Larry, if no one with that receiver addresses the audio I will look it up and try to help. You probably have to assign the audio input to the video if they are not in close physical proximity. I know Denon off hand but not Onkyo.

[Tim Morton]

Larry, you should have a red and white input labled "game" , its the 3rd one in.... and thats where your audio connections will be made. Above that you would have an s-video input and a composite video input. But it sounds like you have chosen to use the component video option....which is great, it just might require you to tell your receiver this. Look up "assign input" in your manual.

[Larry Browning]

Tim,
That was it I had the game audio plugged into the cbl/sat(4th one over) My thinking was that since I had the component video in plugged into cbl/sat that I would also need to plug the audio cables into the cbl/sat audio in. Over thinking got me again!

I am slowly learning my way around this thing. Lots of "Oh wow! look what it did!" moments. I know I will have more questions about the different listening modes(which is pretty much a mystery to me now) and the like. I think we are going to watch Unstoppable tonight so hopefully the sound on that will be good. I want to mess with listening modes during that movie.

I have a Harmony One remote that I re-programmed to include the Receiver and all that went well. I still have a bit of tweaking to do with that, but I am going to wait until I figure out which buttons I use the most on the Receiver remote. My goal is to get to where I don't need the receiver remote except for unusual stuff like setup.

I know I promised some pictures of my setup process, but I forgot to take pictures, due to being engrossed in doing the work. Sorry, but I will post some pics of the final setup when the sub get here.