Member
Well I hate to burst your bubble but I had to pick up the two fingers and one thumb that the guy cut off while ripping pieces of laminate on a tablesaw with the blade gaurd in place. I couldn't believe it myself but was there to witness it.Originally Posted by Kevin Groenke
It's nice to see someone trying to develop another technology but I think there are some flaws with this new technology that the other technology doesn't have.
Member
He didn't say it NEVER happened with the guard on. I don't know the statistics and doubt there are any accurate ones but probably he correct. Seeing it happen does bring it home but it is still anecdotal.
Member
To me the reason the airbag comparison doesn't hold weight is the fact that the air bag costs 1 percent of a modern car. This system costs more then the total cost of 70 or 80 percent of table saws sold. That maybe even a bit low. Most people thought I was crazy for spending 1200 on a grizzly saw. 99 percent of the world would never buy more then a 150 dollar ryobi. I don't care how much they reduce the cost of this in the future it is going to eliminate almost all table saw sales in America anyway.
By the way I think the Sawstop idea is a completely ridiculous waste of money. If anyone was actually worried about cutting a finger off then they could easily grab a push stick and this would actually be safer and free. The biggest problem I have with all of the "Sawstop" people is that they keep assuming that it is a guarantee that it is going to work and never fail. This is false. They have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on the shuttle and they couldnt even make it flawless. The only way to never have an amputation is to never have your finger come in contact with the blade. Outside of not using a table saw at all the only way I know how to never have your finger in contact with the blade is to use a push stick.
Last edited by keith micinski; 02-05-2011 at 1:15 AM.
Member
I disagree with this sttement. I have a SawStop contractor that I purchased after a friend had an accident with my Ruobi BT3000. He was cutting a bevel on a threshold and the wood got sucked into the zero clearance plate slot. His had hit the blade - luckily the wood jammed and he only got a 2" long cut about 1/4" deep. The hospital bill was $1800.00. This friend has been doing construction work for years and was usually very cautious. The cut he was doing could not be done with the guard on and a push stick was out of the question. The error was the zero clearance plate - the blade slot was too wide for the piece of wood at the edge.
As for mandated safety features; I remember the controversy over helmets for motorcycles and the argument. The main justification was to reduce the everity of head injuries and the associated costs to the public to support someone with severe brain damage. The same hustification was used for seat belts and air bags. Reduce the severity of injury and reduce the cost of treatment - everyone pays a part of the insurance costs in their premuims. Costs beyond what insurance pays quite often are passed on to everyone else.
Hospitals pass the cost of treating those who cannot pay to those that can pay. Doctors pass the cost of malpractice insurance to their paitents (usually paid for by insurance companies that pass the costs on as premiums to everyone with a policy). In actuality insurance companies pay nothing out of pocket - the policy holders pay for everything.
While lawyers are not totally blameless for the number of lawsuits we see, much of the blame has to be laid on the greedy people that see any misfortune as an opportunity to get rich. Also to blame are the huge awards awarded by juries, wuite often way out of line with reality.
Member
Like seatbelts, smoking, motorcycle helmets, etc., I believe you should have the choice not to use the safety features.
However, your insurance (gov't or private) shouldn't cover the injury/injuries if it's proven they weren't used.
So, yeah, it's your choice.
Member
This friend has been doing construction work for years and was usually very cautious. The cut he was doing could not be done with the guard on and a push stick was out of the question. The error was the zero clearance plate - the blade slot was too wide for the piece of wood at the edge.
I have two problems with this statement. One there is no such thing as a cut that can't be done with some form of a push stick or push pad. Two how cautious could he be if he was trying to do a cut with the wrong throat insert in and not using a push stick? To me that is the epitome of not cautious. I probably overstated it when I said it was ridiculous. I agree that it is safer then not having the brake. That having been said, personally I would rather not have a saw with the break and I think that is the main point of most of the posters in this thread, everyone should have a choice.
Member
About one table saw accident in five occurs with the guard in place. There's a new article on the Popular Woodworking Editor's Blog that details the accident statistics that CPSC uses.
Bob Lang
Member
I can't even begin to communicate how amused this post made me.
What's the keyboard shortcut for "thumbs up"? John needs at least 62.
daniel
Last edited by daniel lane; 02-07-2011 at 12:34 AM.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
Member
Having read this full thread, I'll chuck my 50% of 1/50th of a dollar into the pot:
1. Ima holdin' on to my old flesh-eater, once the gummint mandates SS tech, it will be worth twice as much as it is now on the black market.
2. Ref. author of USA Today article: Didn't San Francisco recently ban happy meals? Isn't there an analogy worth drawing, just pointing out the government mandates "for the good of the consumer"?
daniel
Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.
Member
People cut their fingers off when using push sticks too... Sure, they reduce the risk, but they don't eliminate it. For example, kickback can cause you to completely lose control of your push stick and send your hand right into the blade. With a high powered saw, you wouldn't have time to react.
You're speaking in extremes and frankly it's a weak argument. Let's say a SS fails to activate 1 out of 100 times, and that one guy cuts his finger off. Terrible thing, no doubt. But that means you have 99 people who still have their fingers. Are you trying to say that just because it failed once, that the whole technology is worthless? That's illogical.
And granted, there hasn't been a single public story of the mechanism failing. Not saying there won't be some day, but in the meantime there are lots of guys out there whose fingers have been saved...
Contributor
They "estimate" Ten fingers a day? Wow, that seems like a lot. I could "estimate" 25 or 50. I guess it's coming. Don't like the Govt making all my decisions for me. But I do understand the concept of the guy in a busy shop being pushed into a blade by someone behind him accidentally tripping and forcing his hand into the blade.
Contributor
Well, well, well.......
116 posts on a SS thread, with only one intervention by the Mod Squad - and you know they've been on this one like snow on Lake Shore Drive. A man coulda made a lot of money on the "over/under till lock" bet after the initial post.
Who'd'a thunk this topic could have stayed this civil for this long? The species may be evolving after all.
Keep up the good attitude, people. I find the topic itself boring, but the group dynamics interesting.
When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.
Member
I thought that too, until I realized every time I open this thread Ken and Bruce appear behind me and they appear, in my peripheral vision at least, to be holding tasers. Strangely, this realization was comforting since for days I couldn't figure out why I was waking up with my head on the keyboard with drool running down my face. Oh really, its just me? They say they only "visit" me and everyone else has indeed evolved.Well, well, well.......
Who'd'a thunk this topic could have stayed this civil for this long? The species may be evolving after all.
Member
Interesting article, thank you Bob. It would be very interesting to see the source data that the CSPC provided you.
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/
To add some clarifying text that the CSPC may have left out...
"it was REPORTED that the blade guard was in use in 22% if the incidents in which injury occurred"
I have no doubt that injuries occur with a bladeguard in place, but 22% seems very high. Perhaps some survey respondents (possibly supervisors or plant managers) were not completely honest about the details of an incident? How many bladeguards get dug out of a dusty corner only after an injury occurs (and before the insurance/OSHA visit)?
At the very least, I would suspect an injury with a bladeguard in place would be a contusion from impact with kickback rather than a more serious laceration from contact with a spinning blade.
-kg
Last edited by Kevin Groenke; 02-07-2011 at 9:47 AM.
Contributor
I thought that too, until I realized every time I open this thread Ken and Bruce appear behind me and they appear, in my peripheral vision at least, to be holding tasers. Strangely, this realization was comforting since for days I couldn't figure out why I was waking up with my head on the keyboard with drool running down my face. Oh really, its just me? They say they only "visit" me and everyone else has indeed evolved.
Van - You already knew that there is a forum function that sends alerts to Ken, Bruce, and Chris whenever you or I sign on. Probably even beeps their blackberry and wakes them up at night.
When I started woodworking, I didn't know squat. I have progressed in 30 years - now I do know squat.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote