stain/finish for items used outdoors?

[Dave Tesch]

hi, i've never posted in this forum before. i have a question about a project i am working on, the picture is of an incomplete project.

a pair of speakers made from solid red oak and red oak plywood to be used outdoors for all day events and otherwise stored indoors (these are basically copies of rat-fur covered particle board speakers that fell apart). my plan is to stain them ebony and then topcoat, but i started wondering about UV protection since they will be outside a lot of the time.

i dont know a lot about colorfast-ness of stain, and i have never used an exterior stain but i have read that it is "soft". i'm not sure how to proceed.

i do have a pair of plywoof pine boxes i built over ten years ago that are used outdoors all the time (all day, get rained on etc) that are just covered with plain old indoor stain and regular varnish, and they look fine (minus scrapes and bruises).

what type of stain/topcoat should i be looking at? i'd prefer a colorfast and hard finish if possible.

thanks

[Casey Gooding]

I would recommend a good quality Marine Varnish for your topcoat. You may need to go to a marine supply store to pick it up. It's not cheap, often around $45/quart, but it's good stuff.

[Steve Schoene]

I'd use a good oil based enamel rather than stain topped with varnish. Red Oak is a horrible outdoor wood. It has open pores that once wet can generate rot from the inside out.
Gloss finishes weather better than flat,but show dings more readily. Light colors are better in that they don't heat up so much in the sun, though really white oil based enamel can be expected to yellow to more like a cream color.

Even a good marine varnish will require regular maintenance to keep looking good if it lives a lot of it's life in the sun.

[Dave Tesch]

my original plan was to use an ebony stain or ebonize the boxes and top coat with a clear or amber finish. the boxes shouldnt get wet, but might get a little rain on them due to fargo's fast acting weather at times but i have tarps that take a moment to cover things up. they will be outside maybe 20 days a year for anywhere from 5 hours to 14 hours.

if i use a UV topcoat - would it protect an indoor stain underneath?

the extent of my staining/varnish has been all interior pieces, so i am a noob about stuff that goes outdoors. it doesnt seem like exterior stain is the right idea for this project but i am no expert.

[Quinn McCarthy]

The other thing that you might want to look at is West System epoxy. I use it all the time for woodwork for boats.

It is not a cheap product but worth the price of admition. They have great web site and tech support too.

Hope that helps.

Q

[Steve Schoene]

Epoxy isn't acceptable as finish by itself. UV light causes it to deteriorate. It's fine under paint,ora good true marine spar varnish with lots of UV protectants.

[Vicki Hayden]

I'm no finish expert, but I'm an outside in the sun expert. For only 20 days per year I would use General Finishes products. Charles Neil talks about them a lot and you can probably find some info about them on his site or he has a lot of Youtube videos. Also, when they are out it would be good to shade them with an umbrella. I bought one of the 6 ft. beach size ones and keep it mounted in a heavy metal umbrella stand and move it about the deck as needed with the sun's movement.
Just my 2 cents,
Vicki

[Dave Tesch]

after looking at many threads here and pictures i think i would really like to use india ink. i really like the way india ink looks on the sword base in particular as well as nearly every project i have seen done with it.

a local carpenter has suggested spar varnish or marine varnish (like here) due to UV protection and heat. i have never used india ink but it looks like oil base varnish works with it. i appreciate the help so far!

[Quinn McCarthy]

I didn't say to use the West System epoxy by itself. They have hardeners that are more resistant to UV degradation but still need uv varnish topcoat.

[Prashun Patel]

Personally, if there are sensitive components inside, then black/ebony may not be the most appropriate choice for coloring; it'll absorb more heat than a neutral color.

If you stain, beware that plywood can take stain unevenly.

I'm inclined to go with a lighter enamel paint.

[Dave Tesch]

almost done. i went with the india ink, and then two coats dewaxed shellac. i have a show next weekend inside so rather than do a rush job with the top coat i will use tham like this, then disassemble and top coat.

any recommendations for a spar varnish over shellac?

IMG_2760.jpgIMG_2755.jpgIMG_2759.jpgIMG_2754.jpg

[Howard Acheson]

Use a good marine finish. Avoid any "spar" or marine varnish you find in a big box. They are not very good.

Go to a marine supply store or a marina store and look for finish brands like Pettit, Wolsey, Interlux or, best of all, Epifanes. These are not inexpensive finishes but they will do a much better job and produce a long lasting finish.

[Neal Clayton]

umm, the sun can destroy shellac in about 5 minutes. that might not have been the best move.

might be ok for a day or so as long as something else is on top of it, but shellac cannot be exposed to the sun even if underneath another finish.