More money to run 220 0r110

[Darin Higginbotham]

Does it cost more to run a dual voltage motor at 220 rather than110.

[Rick Pettit]

Pulls fewer amps at 240 volts.

[Mike Davis NC]

Does a gallon of water cost more if it comes in through one pipe or two?

No difference.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Pulls fewer amps at 240 volts.

But the power company bills you for power, not amps, and power is volts times amps. So, yes, it pulls half the amps, but at twice the voltage, for the exact same power.

So: no. Same cost, either way.

[Jason White]

Ditto what Dan said. What you pay is based on total watts (kilowatt hours) used.

That said, your motor will start faster and run cooler on 220 volts -- at least in my own personal experience.

Jason

But the power company bills you for power, not amps, and power is volts times amps. So, yes, it pulls half the amps, but at twice the voltage, for the exact same power.

So: no. Same cost, either way.

[Dan Friedrichs]

That said, your motor will start faster and run cooler on 220 volts -- at least in my own personal experience.

Well, for the same size wire running to the outlet, yes, the motor will start faster on 220V (because there will be less voltage drop across the length of the wire).

The motor will NOT run hotter at 110V. When you re-wire a multi-voltage motor, you just change some windings within the motor from being in parallel to being in series. The motor has no idea if the wire supplying it is 110 or 220V.

[Rod Sheridan]

As others have said, the motor uses the same power, so you're billed the same from the utility company.

As to performance on 120 VS 240 volts, if there's a difference you have a circuit design problem.

Regards, Rod.

[Kent Chasson]

Sorry to hijack but a kind-of related question for the electrician/physicists. Does the total heat output of a machine correlate directly to electricity input? My new dust collector really heats up the shop and I'm wondering if it's pulling massive amounts of electricity or if something else is going on.

[John Coloccia]

Sorry to hijack but a kind-of related question for the electrician/physicists. Does the total heat output of a machine correlate directly to electricity input? My new dust collector really heats up the shop and I'm wondering if it's pulling massive amounts of electricity or if something else is going on.

Do you have any idea what a deep and fundamental question you just asked? I'll bet you that you can go to 10 different physicists and get at least 2 completely different answers. I'm interested in seeing what the answers to this end up being!

[Mike Schuch]

Hopefully the vast majority of the work your dust collector is doing is sucking air not heating it. I think that you probably could correlate the heat output of a motor to its efficiency. A motor that is 80% efficient will use less electricity to do the same job as a motor that is 60% efficient. Where does that extra electricity go in the 60% efficient motor?..... HEAT!

[Dan Friedrichs]

You're not even going to take a stab at it, John?

The total energy (electrical) provided to the DC does eventually get turned into heat (all of it). Conservation of energy tells us that no energy can be "destroyed". If you have a 5HP dust collector that is running near the motor's full capacity, you are drawing roughly 4kW, and all of that energy will get turned into heat. Consider that even moving air around takes energy to do, and when that moving air runs into something (a wall, etc), the kinetic energy it contained has to go somewhere (in this case, it heats up the wall).

Interestingly, if you had a very well-sealed shop (ie - no light, sound, vibration, air, etc, could escape), you could turn on a 4kW dust collector or a 4kW electric heater, and have the shop heated the exact same amount*.

(*that said, you might find the electric heater makes the shop more comfortable because it heats the air, rather than, say, the walls, but the principle still holds - whatever electric energy you brought into the shop must be turned into some other form of energy, because it cannot be destroyed)


All that said, if you are concerned that your DC is drawing too much power, you could get a cheap clamp-on AC ammeter and check how much current it is drawing, and compare to the nameplate.

[Dennis Ford]

I am not a physicists and did not stay at Holiday Inn last night. As Mike wrote, most of the energy is used to move air around, and some is directly output as heat. But the moving air eventually converts its energy to heat also. In a closed shop the dust collector will convert virtually all of the input energy to heat.

[Rod Sheridan]

All the electricity your motor is using will be converted to heat.

If you don't exhaust the air outside from your dust collector, you will be heating your shop with the full electrical load of the motor.

This is also true for all lighting and power tools.

So if you're running a dust collector whose motor is doing 2 HP of work and the motor efficiency is 85% you'll have

2 HP X 746 w/Hp X 1.15 = 1,716 watts

Most people don't think about that, however all machine losses such as friction and windage are converted to heat, as is the work required to cut the wood. (That's why the sawdust is hot, the 1 HP of work the saw blade is doing is heating the wood and the saw dust produced).

Fortunately for hobby users, the only machine that does any real work is the dust collector, the saw sits there idling then you make 10 seconds of a cut at 3/4 HP then it sits there idling while you pick up the next piece etc.

If you've ever had experiences running molders or gang rip saws in industry you're familiar with how much heat is carried away by the chips and dust.

Regards, Rod.

[Chip Lindley]

What They Said! I am NO electrician/physicist, but I AM an expert/amateur! lol!

Dust collector motors run at near their maximum rated amperage all the time. They are heavily loaded, and create much heat from the hard work being done moving massive amounts of air. Dust collector motors are generally TEFC-type, which run hotter than open drip-proof motors.

Many other machines never come close to being loaded that heavily, except for short periods of time. For that very reason, most Industrial machines are overpowered with larger motors than needed. The motor works less, lasts much longer, and probably does not consume more watts working at 66% capacity, than a smaller motor would consume at 100% capacity. That power consumption could easily be measured by instruments.

To the OP's question: No difference, if both 110v and 220v circuits are sized adequately and within length guidelines. But, too often, 110v machines are run on undersized extension cords that get warm to the touch. That is energy wasted as resistance. All other things being equal, energy to run the same machine on 220v would cost LESS.

[Carroll Courtney]

Here in and around the Houston area the companys are changing out the old style meter to what is called "Smart Meter" which is digital and not the rotating disk type and now it will cost you more to use 220v vs 110v which is base on what the elec companys considers the best for them either KWhrs,voltages,amps,etc it makes no difference.Wish I would have paid closer attention and provided a better answer.Only thing that happens is on 220v your just using up another space for a breaker and your limiting yourself on outlets.This info is not from me but from an elec.class that I took afew days ago from Wayne Rogers who is an electrical consultant----Carroll