Another "what am I doing wrong" sanding rant......

[GLENN THOMAS]

I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents worth also. I've tried all the sanding techniques and never had too much luck with any of them. What worked for me more than anything else was to practice practice and practice my cuts and use really sharp tools. I've been able to get a pretty good surface right off the tool and can usuall start sanding by hand with 150. I just use regular sand paper and sand with the lathe off and with the grain. I don't sand flat work cross grain so I figure I shouldn't do it with bowls either. I'm not saying my way is perfect but it has worked better for me than anything else and the more I practice my cuts the better they look. My recommendation would be to shut the lathe off and just try sanding by hand with the grain, if you do leave scratches they don't show up nearly as bad.

[Don Alexander]

lots of good input here personally i never use anything coarser than 150 grit i do have 1 box of 120 grit for my ROS but that never sees a bowl

i hand sand everything one thing i haven't seen mentioned that helps with sanding scratches is to sand across the grain with the lathe off after sanding with the lathe turning and before changing grits always wiping or blowing the dust off the piece between the lathe on and latehe off portions
light touch with the paper is essential and you actually will spend less time sanding with a light touch than with a heavier touch (also will help keep the heat issue at bay) i hate sanding at least as much as anyone but if you want a quality finish you must do the sanding cutting corners is not going to produce good results and as already mentioned buying better sand paper is more than worthwhile and avoid overusing any one piece
Klingspor's has quality paper at reasonable prices

[Reed Gray]

A couple of things to add here.

First, the idea to reduce sanding time is to perfect your turning skills so there is less sanding to do. Let's face it, some days are better than others. If I can start at 120, that is generally preferable to 80 grit because the scratches from 80 grit are some times worse than tool marks. Learning a good gentle shear cut with a scraper or gouge really helps save at least 1 grit. You want to see little whispy spider web shavings floating in the air.

Your abrasives are cutting tools. On a drill, one of the eraser sticks can clean it up a bit, but rub your fingers on it and if it feels dull, toss it. You can not resharpen it. As Steve Antonucchi on Wood Central said once, "use sandpaper like my 4 year old uses toilet paper!' If you used that one piece of sand paper for 20 minutes, that was at least 18 minutes too long.

Power sanding is more efficient than hand sanding for bowls. You can also vary the direction of your scratch pattern to see if you are getting all of the previous scratches out. Run the drill at half speed, in the 600 rpm range, and use lite pressure, no more than the weight of the drill max. It really cuts better that way. I do wipe out the dust by hand. As you get to the finer grits, if there are scratches, the finer dust will go into the scratches and high light them. You may be able to reglue the hook pad back onto your sanding mandril. Use a rubber cement like Barge Cement. You can buy cheap stuff at most fabric stores.

Have good light and glasses if you need them.

With 80 and 120 grit, you are sanding, and changing the shape a bit, smoothing out bumps and toll marks. With 180 and 220, you are cleaning up things a bit, but only gently rounding over edges. Above 220, and you are only buffing out the sanding marks from the previous grit. Sanding scratches up to the 400 grit range are visible to the human eye. The 000 synthetic steel wool will wipe most of those out. When you get to the 600 and 800 grit range, we can't see them, even with glasses and good light. If you do see some, it is from coarser grits, and you have to go back: "Oh shoot, not again!!!!!"

Sand till you thing you got all the scratches/tool marks out, then hit it again lightly. Get all the marks out before going to the next grit, if you just get almost all of it, it will never go away.

The Norton 3X is a good hand sand paper, and you can buy jobber packs of 50 sheets fairly cheaply.

robo hippy

[Wally Dickerman]

When I'm teaching beginners classes I don't allow power sanding. I feel that you need to know how to hand sand first. First, as others have said, buy good sandpaper. it's much more effective and doesn't have the occasional grit that does some damage. It's cheaper in the long run. I suggest Norton 3X. Craft Supplies has it. I don't know how well you are able to prepare the wood with tools, but if you have some tearout, go with 80 grit first. Keep the paper moving and don't apply too much pressure. DO NOT overuse the paper. The saying is..sand like someone else is paying for the paper. Use paper in this order. 80 120 180 220 320 400 600..Do not skip grits. If you get to the finer paper and see deep sanding marks, you just about have to start over. You can't get rid of 80 grit scratches with 220 paper.

Now here's the important part. OIL SAND. for the first grit or two apply oil to the wood first. I use regular finishing oil. You won't believe how quickly and easily you can get a good clean surface by using oil. The paper will clog fast so go to a new piece. Oil sanding is very effective.

Good luck

Wally

[Jack Gaskins]

Thanks to all for the helpfull suggestions. I am betting most of my issue is the sand paper. It is black and when I sand I can see a lot of the sand paper particles so I think they are breaking off the paper in too big a pieces and just making more scratches. I tried to take some photos of a couple of bowls I did last week but due to the finish they are a little hard to see. I work on a bowl tonight and before I apply a finish I will try and take some photos of the scratches.

[Gary Max]

Jack---- from what I see you should of never made it past 220 grit.

[Tim Thiebaut]

Hi Jack, I am in the beginnning learning phase of this vortex of turning, and so far I have come to realize that there is just as much to learn about sanding/finishing as there is about turning wood itself. I still have some issues like this myself, I picked up my right angle drill this morning from HF, now I need to get some sanding disks in and go from there, so far it has been all hand sanding, and sorby bowl sander for me. Good luck to you on getting this right, I will be watching and hopefully learning from this as you are, Tim

[John Keeton]

Jack, I think you need to "start from scratch" (bad pun!!) and get some decent paper. Those scratches are far apart, which would indicate to me that the paper you are using has inconsistent granulation. Good paper will break down the granules - they don't come off, they fracture leaving sharp, but smaller particles. It appears your paper is not breaking down, and has oversize granules.

[Rick Markham]

Jack from your photos, those are sanding marks. I second the +1 on the 3M (upper end 3M stuff) and the Norton papers. I think hand sanding is an art, in itself. Take your time, let the paper do the work, if your fingers hurt or get sore, your using too much pressure. Fresh (good quality) sandpaper is your friend, most people don't realize how much better the real stuff is. (+1 on using sandpaper like a 4 year old uses toilet paper) I guess I am fairly methodical about how I do my sanding, 120, 150, 220, 320, 400, 600, 0000 steel wool. I know the rule is not to move on to the next grit until the scratches from the grit before are gone. I am a firm believer that you sand with one grit until the surface doesn't get any better, that's when your leaving only that grits marks in the piece. (It's a judgement call) everyone has offered you great advice, be patient and get some good paper!

[Jack Gaskins]

Jack---- from what I see you should of never made it past 220 grit.

Hi Gary, Absolutely I should have not made it past 220. After I get done with the 180 I think that the 240 will make the scratches thinner and thinner and eventually they will fade away,,,, BUT NOPE,,,stupid things are still there.

[Jack Gaskins]

I noticed last night that the scrathches in my bowl in the photo above seem to be so close together that it looks like I smugged the finish. One other thing I noticed was that I do not see large scratches mixed in with the thinner scratches so it seems like I am just smearing the finish rather than smoothing it. Probably due to crappy sand paper from HF. I will order buy some nortone 3X next pay day. Anyone know where to get the best price on Norton 3X paper?

[Gary Max]

Jack I do this a little different----if I have scratches that deep, I fire up my Dynabrade 5 inch air sander and sand the whole thing done while it's mounted on the lathe---not running. This gives me the control I want to get rid of the scratchs. I buy all my sand paper from Klingspor.

[John Keeton]

Jack, I have purchased all my sandpaper from these folks - http://www.onlineindustrialsupply.co...ve-sheets.html

While they carry the major brands, I have found their USA1 abrasives to be very high quality and the best price I have found. I think I stated this earlier, but they have a very good reputation among flatwork creekers (which is when I first started using them.) I can highly recommend them. They do carry Norton and Mirka, as well.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jack I also use Norton 3X and Finkat paper that CSUSA also sells. I tried the variety pack and liked it so well I am going to order a supply of it to try.

[Thom Sturgill]

<snip> I am betting most of my issue is the sand paper. It is black and when I sand I can see a lot of the sand paper particles so I think they are breaking off the paper in too big a pieces and just making more scratches.<snip>

Jack, this is exactly why so many have raised the issues of the quality of the paper and cleaning between passes.