Drawer Issues

[Matt Woessner]

Well my first attempt at making drawers has gone ok until now. They are pretty simple not unlike myself. I have constructed them out of hard maple and walnut. The sides are rabbeted and and the bottom is 1/2 birch ply. They have started to twist and now once placed on the slides they are not square and do not line up. Does anyone have any ideas how to make and keep them square? Thanks for the help.

[Lee Schierer]

There are several potential causes for your problem.

1. When making drawers or cabinet parts you want everything as perfectly square and flat as you can get it as you make each piece. Check your saw alignment and do a tune up if needed.

2. You also need to insure your wood is properly dried. Air dried lumber brought indoors needs a month or more to acclimate. If you are preparing rough stock to finished lumber you need to remove equal amounts from each side of the board in several stages, letting them rest several days between thickness reducing stages. If the boards show any signs of movement you need to proceed with caution. A moisture meter can be your friend.

3. Glue up is a key ingredient to to a good drawer. If it isn't assembled and clamped square, it won't turn out square or flat. Check and recheck for squareness and flatness before the glue sets up. Measure your diagonals to insure the drawer is square. Clamp it up on a flat surface.

Unless you are planning to put a lot of weight in the drawer, I find that 1/2" ply is over kill. for drawer bottoms.

[keith micinski]

By twist I am assuming you mean that if you were to place the bottom of the drawer down on a flat surface it would rock corner to corner. If that is the case I would look more at wood movement then cutting practices. I am not really sure how you could cut a drawer so that it would be twisted unless the side members were really long and they weren't face jointed, just run through the planer. I suppose once you put it together there might be enough warpage to actually twist the drawer once put together square.

[keith micinski]

I just re-read Lee's post and saw that he says 1/2 inch is overkill for bottoms. I couldn't disagree with this more. When I first stated building stuff I would use quarter inch ply and there is a reason that particle board furniture comes with 1/4 inch stuff. It's cheap and just barely good enough. The same drawer built with half inch could last a life time. I also like to glue the centers of my bottoms in the rabbet but I don't think most people do this either.

[Matt Woessner]

These drawers that I made the walnut and maple were both dry and square. ( I learned real quick woodworking is hard enough as it is, then you add low grade stock or a piece that is not square nothing really works well). The boxes turned out square once glued and dried. Now they rock on the slides. As far as the 1/2 inch bottom was used this is for a train table for my year old son, and everything I build I engineer to the factor of five. That is I look over and see 5 kids standing on the top, drawer, etc. I like good strong heavy durable furniture.

I am irritated that my nice drawers may look like poo installed.

[glenn bradley]

That is I look over and see 5 kids standing on the top, drawer, etc.

Heh-heh. Well, you know your audience and build accordingly. Good for you. So, what I am hearing is that these drawers were square and laid flat on a known flat surface when they cam out of the clamps? That is some serious wood movement. I have no cure for an assembled drawers that rocks. I have made it a habit (most of the time) to mill my stock over-sized, let it set for a couple days and then mill to final size and assemble. This has led to almost no unexpected movement but, there's always a trouble-making board lurking in the pile somewhere ;-)

[Philip Rodriquez]

I'll jump in and offer some free advice.

You said "...The sides are rabbeted..."

IMHO, this is likely to be your problem. Your joint selection is the weakest one out there because it does not have any mechanical strength. Fortunately, the fix is pretty darn easy. Reinforce the joint by simply drilling some holes in the sides and gluing in some dowel stock. It is called a reinforced rabbet joint.

[James Baker SD]

Did you glue your bottom into the drawer? If yes, maybe the twist is caused by the sides moving some and the bottom remaining stable.

James

[keith micinski]

I originally was thinking these were slides mounted on the side but a slightly twisted box wouldn't affect those so now I assume they are bottom mounted slides. If that is the case why not shim the slide mounted to the cabinet to take the wobble out? Also since you used plywood for the bottoms even if you did glue them in the entire length I would have thought that would have actually stabilized the bottom if anything.

[Chip Lindley]

Matt, the info you give is too sketchy to make a thorough diagnosis. Sounds like a very large drawer if it is also a train table! You say the drawers (more than one) are square after gluing together. Now (they) rock on the slides. Are these bottom- or side-mounted drawer slides?

Perhaps your drawer slides need adjustment or shimming. Perhaps the carcass the drawers fit into is not square! There are many reasons drawers, slides and carcasses do not jive correctly. Perhaps the square you use is not a perfect 90 degrees. A small error adds up over four corners. Pictures would help lots.

[Van Huskey]

. I have made it a habit (most of the time) to mill my stock over-sized, let it set for a couple days and then mill to final size and assemble. This has led to almost no unexpected movement but, there's always a trouble-making board lurking in the pile somewhere ;-)

First, did you do the above? If not that MAY be your problem or at least part of it.

[Dave MacArthur]

Yep, pictures needed. We don't know what joint you really used (rabbeted the sides could be a couple of different things), what slides you used, what reference for square or warped you're using. "Once placed on the slides they are not square"--is that sitting on a known flat surface, or inside the carcass which could be warped?

Also, gluing in drawer bottoms... If I did it, I would glue in the front and let the back float/expand out the rear--this is how most drawers are designed, with the back edge not captured in a dado and the back just dropping down on top of the bottom. Glue in the middle would force the front edge to expand forward and press against the front, causing issues.

[bill schmoott]

Matt, I am sure there are a lot out there that have constructed rabbet drawers and have had great success. However, there I personally would recommend dovetails. This could be the issue. Some photos would help. Did I mention that some photos would help?

[Lee Schierer]

I just re-read Lee's post and saw that he says 1/2 inch is overkill for bottoms. I couldn't disagree with this more. When I first stated building stuff I would use quarter inch ply and there is a reason that particle board furniture comes with 1/4 inch stuff. It's cheap and just barely good enough. The same drawer built with half inch could last a life time. I also like to glue the centers of my bottoms in the rabbet but I don't think most people do this either.

First of all I aqgree that particle board furniture is cheap and cheaply made. I use 1/2" Poplar for my drawer sides, I dovetail all four corners and I enclose the bottom panel on all four sides in a dado cut into the sides. I do not glue them in place. I weigh 230 pounds and I can and have stood on the bottom of my dresser drawers with out the bottom failing. I have never had a drawer bottom fail and some of my pieces are more than 25 years old.

With that said, If the drawer were destined to be used for heavy tools or if the drawer bottm is only supported by three sides, I would problably opt for 3/8" ply. 1/2" is still over kill IMO.

[Tony Bilello]

Did you have to clamp or otherwise force the drawer box into shape when gluing up?
If YES, then the wood is trying to get back to it's original shape.
If NO, then the wood is unstable and warping.

What kind of ply did you use for the bottoms?

Did the plywood come from HD?
If YES, that in itself explains everything.