New Bandsaw Purchase: Laguna vs. Minimax

[dirk martin]

Every now and then, people like to say that the Grizzly isn't in the same ballpark as the MiniMax's.

The weight difference is 50 pounds....not a big deal.
I've resawed on both, all day long, and never saw how that 50 pounds was helping me on the MM.

But I tell you what, with the Griz at $2,969 and the MM at $4,695, that must be some pretty expensive metal in that minimax. I think Grizzly is clearly showing that some of these other folks are way over priced on their bandsaws.

Now, the 24" Grizzly has a 16" resaw limit....and if you need more than that, then Griz is not in the picture. BTW, I find it interesting that the MM24 has the highest resaw capacity of all of Minimax's saws...and I think they have 3 larger beasts. I may be wrong on that stat...but I think it's right.

Oh, and I love the quick blade tension release on the Grizz. I wish the MM had that.

[Van Huskey]

My $.02 on bandsaw's

I purchased a Grizzly G0636x. 16+ resaw capability and 5 hp motor for a little over $2000. My father has a Laguna 16 and while it's a nice machine I prefer the Grizzly. It has a larger table, weighs a lot more and has power to spare. It was aligned perfectly out of the box. They are all nice choices, but I think the Grizzly is worth a look. I'm very pleased with mine.

The 636X is indeed a nice saw and well priced, as a resaw bandsaw I think it is the equal of the 16" Italian saws in many ways and is about $400 cheaper delivered (street prices). The thing I do not like about it as a contour cutting bandsaw is how far the lower guide is from the work. But, worth a look none the less.

[Van Huskey]

Every now and then, people like to say that the Grizzly isn't in the same ballpark as the MiniMax's.

The weight difference is 50 pounds....not a big deal.
I've resawed on both, all day long, and never saw how that 50 pounds was helping me on the MM.

But I tell you what, with the Griz at $2,969 and the MM at $4,695, that must be some pretty expensive metal in that minimax. I think Grizzly is clearly showing that some of these other folks are way over priced on their bandsaws.

Now, the 24" Grizzly has a 16" resaw limit....and if you need more than that, then Griz is not in the picture. BTW, I find it interesting that the MM24 has the highest resaw capacity of all of Minimax's saws...and I think they have 3 larger beasts. I may be wrong on that stat...but I think it's right.

Oh, and I love the quick blade tension release on the Grizz. I wish the MM had that.

They are not in the same ballpark, I will say it every day and twice on Sunday. The Grizzly is a traditional bandsaw and the MM24 is a modern vertical "resaw" bandsaw. It carries 170 extra pounds, most of it in the frame to increase deflection resistance to allow its 50% increase over the Grizzly in resaw height, that takes a considerably more substantial saw. If you never use the capacity of the Minimax you won't see the benefit of the extra weight or the extra cost. The MM24 is significantly more expensive but just like comparing a F150 to an F350 pickup if you never need to exceed the capacity of the F150 then the F350 looks overpriced, if you need to resaw a 23" board the Grizzly could cost $500.00 and still be poor value because it can not do the job. Grizzly doesn't have anything in the class of the MM24, the closest Italian saw to the G0568/569 is the Agazzani B-24 which is VERY similar in capacity and costs (street price) about $200-300 more. The bottom line is if someone doesn't need the capacity of the MM24 then it makes sense to look at more reasonably priced options such as the G0568 but if they do need the capacity Grizzly as a company is off the list and Felder, Minimax, Agazzani, Laguna and a select few others are on.

[dirk martin]

I fully agree with Van Huskey.
It really gets down to resaw height.
If the Grizzly has enough resaw height, then why pay for more.

[Mike Daugherty]

I have been reading the comments posted about the new bandsaws. I just wanted to mention that it might be worth your time to check out the new Felder bandsaws. Felder has two models that I believe have some great features. The very affordable Hammer N4400 has a 12" resaw capacity and the Felder FB600, which weighs in at 726 lbs., has a 15 3/4" resaw capacity. I looked at every European made bandsaw I could find. I was most interested in the Laguna and the Agazzanni to start with. I spoke with owners of both and then spoke with Felder owners. Although the Laguna and Agazzanni owners seemed pleased, I found that the Felder owners were excited. The Service and support from Felder USA in Delaware is superb in every owners opinion. I am an existing owner of a Felder combination slider saw/shaper and have now ordered a FB600 bandsaw. The Felder machine I have now is without question one of the finest machine made and I am sure that the Bandsaw is as well. I believe if you look at the Felder bandsaws, you also will find superior quality at very competitive prices. I had looked at the Felder FB600 in Atlanta at the IWF and was thoroughly impressed with how well it is made.

Mike Daugherty

[Russ Apple]

I have to agree with Mike Daugherty. FELDER equipment is frequently overlooked or casually dismissed as automatically unaffordable.

Several years ago, I actually worked for the Felder USA company. Being a displaced mechanical engineer, I was so impressed by their very conservative and understated engineering that I made a wholesale career change, determined to acquire at least one of these beauties. Years later, when life events moved me onward, I did manage to snatch a sweet little gem of a bandsaw, the HAMMER N4400. All the noise out there about whose bandsaw is better, constantly comparing specs, reminds me of my other hobby, motorcycles. While specifications do matter (I am still an engineer after all), it's taking a ride that counts.

My choice of the many excellent bandsaws was made simple some years ago, back when I was still working for FELDER, manning the HAMMER booth at the New Jersey WW expo. I was privileged to assist the legendary Frank Klausz while he showed off the capabilities of the HAMMER line. I learned more from the master in that one afternoon than I had in years. Mr. Klausz showed me how to really, properly set up a bandsaw. Using the N4400, he started slicing smooth and even, paper-thin sheets, 10-12 inches wide, (by the dozens as handouts) of cherry, walnut, and maple to use as veneers. He would hold them up to the light showing me what to look for. Privately, even he was truly surprised at this humble bandsaw. I realised that this machine had really proven to be more than capable for my needs and abilities. My skills (and my back) were my real limitations. Being able to resaw a 12" log is more than sufficient for me (If you have ever tried lifting a 3 foot long, 12 inch log of some hardwood you know what I mean).

Holding up his freshly cut veneer sheet, one could see through it and just make out the letters on the HAMMER flyer underneath. Frank gestured at the sea of the latest equipment out on the expo floor and grinning he said to me, "A poor craftsman always blames his tools... Come on, what more do you want from this machine?"

Here's my little N4400 gem. Using a simple home-brewed jig and an old blade, I developed a technique to reproduce a sawmill's rough-sawn finish (with no banding) for the wife's outdoor projects. -Russ Apple

[Mike Daugherty]

Great looking jig Russ. When I get my new FB600 in maybe you can come show me some tricks on what Klausz taught you. Here are some links to Felder's bandsaws. Thought people might be interested.

FB600: http://www.felderusa.com/us-us/products/bandsaws/bandsaw-fb-600.html
N4400: http://www.hammerusa.com/products_details.php?parent=f664d658ca96a1c8dcd8&x at_code=44599618463c98e71c5e&region=us-us&felder-group=http://www.feldergroupusa.com/products_list.php%3Fsite_id%3D2%26region%3Dus-us%26category%3Df664d658ca96a1c8dcd8

[Chris Colton]

I am new to this forum and would like to introduce myself. I have been reading threads here for quite some time and have enjoyed all the expert advice given here. What did we do before forums like this existed?

I have been working with wood, very slowly, since I bought my first wooden boat, a 19 ft Lightning sloop, when I was 12. I like to work wood with hand tools but recently realized just how slow I was and decided to buy a jointer/planer last year. I evaluated all of the competition and decided upon the Hammer A3 31 and love it.

So, when it came time to purchase a band saw, after selling my Grizzly 17 inch saw, I looked again at all available band saws in my price range - MM16 was at the top end of this range. When I compared all of the saws, I decided that the Hammer N4400 had everything I wanted: foot brake; 4hp motor; 12 inch resaw capacity; and most importantly, quality build.

I just received it Monday. It took me about 1 hour to unpack it and put it together - very easy. I have cut a few pieces of wood, including re-sawing a piece of 10 inch walnut and found that the cutting action, using the blade supplied by Felder, was very smooth. The N440 passed the nickel test with flying colors; my nickel didn't budge. Onto the dime test?

I don't have a table saw, so the band saw if very important for me. Let me say that, despite my high expectations for this saw, my expectations have been exceeded. So far I love this saw. I took some pictures of the initial set up and plan to write up a review of the saw as I get to know it better. For now, I am one very happy customer.

I forgot to mention, I really like the entire staff at the Wilmington, DE office. They are very knowledgeable, helpful and not pushy at all.

Hope this helps,

Chris

[Jamie Buxton]

For many years, the Hammer/Felder saws were built by ACM, like the larger Laguna saws. They may have had different motors or guides, but were otherwise the same. Are they still ACM-sourced?

[Chris Colton]

I know that some of the Felder saws are still manufactured by ACM, but the New N4400 and the New FB600 are manufactured in-house.

Chris

[Jamie Buxton]

I've just looked at the link Mike provided to the N4400. The web site is kinda funky, so it is difficult to really draw conclusions, but as far as I can see, that saw looks exactly like my ACM-built Laguna LT16HD. The size and shape are the same. The guides are the same. The safety guards are the same. The zero-clearance insert is the same darn piece of plastic. Even the knobs that latch the covers are the same. The geared trunnion isn't like mine, but look identical to the one on the current LT16HD The power switch is different, and the paint job is different.
There's a standard epithet of "Chinese copy"; this one looks like we need a new phrase "Austrian copy".

[Dave MacArthur]

I thought the Felder was ACM built, we had a long thread with sources about 7 months ago on it. Joe Jensen has one and loves it, he sold his MM 16" for it. Felder had an introductory pricing on hrmmm... something, can't remember which one, FB600? Somewhere around 19-21" I recall, and it was a great deal, about a year ago--I was almost convinced to pull the trigger.

My brother lives about a block away from Felder HQ in DE, so next time I'm out there visiting I plan on making a pilgrimage there and checking things out!

[Chris Colton]

Hi Dave,

I would definitely recommend a visit to the Felder HQ in DE when you come to town. You are also welcome to visit me, I live about 12 miles away in North Wilmington, and use the two machines I have: N4400 and A3 31.

Chris

[Mike Tekin]

This thread has been very helpful...I am in the same boat - I am looking at the 14SUV from Laguna because its a well made saw for what it is. I then saw the info on the Hammer NB4400. I spoke to a friendly person from the Deleware HQ. This specific model is now built in house in Austria - fact.

They are currently on backorder until sometime in April.

[Aaron Rowland]

I have a very expensive euro Bans saw that gets very good PR. I's not going to mention its name unless pressed. A plus as the price as gone up a lot because of the $ going down. So I assume resale would be good. That's it.

The thing is pure junk. I wondered how the Italians could compete against the Asian's and found out the hard way. The body is 14Ga and flex is awful. The lead screws for tension tilt etc are redi-bolt instead of Acme threads. The post guide is round instead of square and impossible to keep lined up. It also runs in a simple sheet metal hole in the bottom with no bushing . The top is about 1/8" steel with a hole and no bearing.

The undersized 2 HP motor burnt out recently and replacement was quoted a close to $700.00. Wait there is more- the foot brake is so high as to be worthless and doesn't have a motor kill switch. Saws made in Italy use a lot of common parts. Note the totally warped plastic inserts that they are used.. The deck doesn't even have the pin that keeps it from warping.

After I got it I discovered Euro Guides suck and I bought a Carter set up. $160 gulp. These couldn't even help it to cut straight. So it' sits in a corner of my shop while I'm trying to determine what to do. When the chips were down on this the dealer, who has a very good reputation and is a nice guy, tried to upgrade me to a bigger model. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

I'm new on this site and don't know the rules so won't mention names.I even pulled my really harsh comments on some other stuff. When you buy a new bandsaw forget Italy. You are paying way to much money for poor saws. Germany I know nothing. Taiwan is a good bet but you better look very hard at the items I just talked about. Round posts are from the 30's. Square posts can run true and not rotate. I would make the dealer guarantte wheels being round to at least .002 . Make sure the motor is big enough to reach speed in under 2 seconds. Plus a zillion other things. Good luck.