Can someone explain how a Japanese long plane planes flat surfaces?

[george wilson]

Pam,of course everyone knows you pull the plane. It would still plane the board convex anyway,without a contact surface in front of the iron. This isn't complicated.

[Frank Drew]

Hand placement depends on which side you like the work to be, and personal comfort; I'm right handed and I'm more comfortable having the work on my right, so my left hand is on the plane at the blade and my right hand at the front of the plane body. Although your hands and arms are doing some of the work, due to the pulling action your stomach muscles are getting the biggest workout!

My two "smoothing" planes are around 11" long, and my longer plane is 15" inches long. The former are tuned so that the soles have two contact areas, and the latter with three. In use, that is if you're basically doing nothing but planing all day, as could be common on house work featuring lots of exposed wood, the plane sole might have to be tuned up multiple times during the day to keep it working at maximum effectiveness.

[David Weaver]

You didn't hear this from me, and I didn't hear it from anyone else.

The ledge doesn't make any difference to the performance, but does mean someone cut it out by hand. Machines can't make the ledge. Now, it's almost required to have a decent kanna with a ledge in it otherwise folks will think it's a lesser grade plane.

I have had the same thought. I've never noticed it to be anything other than an indicator of quality for the dai, and of course, any high $$ iron is going to have it, too.

I admire the skill that it takes to make one quickly.

I understand the taiwanese used irons from japanese planes and didn't even bother with abutments, just used a rod and pressure on the second iron to hold the primary iron in place.

Many ways to skin a cat.

[David Weaver]

Frank, more specifically though on the nagadai, do is the back of the plane far enough away that you can't have your left hand both on the back of the plane (to pull) as well as the iron? If so, where do you put it - on the dai or on the iron?

As a righthander, it never occurred to me to put my right hand on the back of the plane and have the work to my left.

[Frank Drew]

Frank, more specifically though on the nagadai, do is the back of the plane far enough away that you can't have your left hand both on the back of the plane (to pull) as well as the iron? If so, where do you put it - on the dai or on the iron?

David,
I haven't used one of the very long planes, but on those I have or have used my left hand is on the iron plus plane body. Not at the back/heel of the plane body, which I think would give me less control, or less feel for how the blade is cutting. And my right hand is right at the front of the plane.

[Dale Osowski]

I think a tsutsumi is not needed but I do feel it does represent a higher quality dai. It may cause a bit of tuning issues however or may spring down if blade is set to deep.

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam,of course everyone knows you pull the plane. It would still plane the board convex anyway,without a contact surface in front of the iron. This isn't complicated.

George, I think the difference between pulling and pushing is intuitively obvious, not that I don't use eastern and western planes both ways on occasion. My reiteration of pulling was intended to be an important reminder, not something I thought no one knew. So, it seems that my planes defy your convex contention somehow. I don't plane boards to concave unintentionally or unknowingly.

For jointers with flat soles, NOT smoothers with the front hollow, I intentionally spring long boards, whether I'm using eastern or western planes.

To Frank and David, I think it was a mistake to try to describe how the hands hold a Japanese smoother. What's more, I think in the early hours I got it wrong, or at least not right; but my point about the forces on these planes holds. All the force focuses on the front touchdown.

Pam

[george wilson]

Pam,I do not understand what you mean by "convex contention". You aren't making your plane concave throughout the sole are you? From re reading your posts,apparently you are not. Therefore,I wouldn't think your long plane would generate convex work from having a hollow sole,whether they are pulled or pushed. And,of course,to spring boards you must plane them a bit concave,which would be the opposite of what a hollow sole would want to do.

[Johnny Kleso]

Here is a link to Wilbur's Blog
I know somewhere on there is some graphics of the sole..

http://giantcypress.net/

Click on link below and at bottom of page keep clicking OLDER
http://giantcypress.net/tagged/plane/page/4

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam,I do not understand what you mean by "convex contention". You aren't making your plane concave throughout the sole are you? From re reading your posts,apparently you are not. Therefore,I wouldn't think your long plane would generate convex work from having a hollow sole,whether they are pulled or pushed. And,of course,to spring boards you must plane them a bit concave,which would be the opposite of what a hollow sole would want to do.

Sorry, meant to say concave.

Also, I think I'm not helping anyone in this thread, too distracted or something. I now bow out.

Pam

[george wilson]

Wait for your magazine,Pam. I don't know how I got mine so quickly. I've had it for days.

[David Weaver]

George - just open the wallet and buy a few of them and experiment.

[george wilson]

I don't have the strong back to pull a plane!! Really,I'd throw it out quick. I think you need to do these things(like PULLING a plane) over the years to stay in shape to do it on any sustained basis. I can PUSH one because I'm used to that.

[Dale Osowski]

I feel Japanese planes are easier on the body and joints, it's one of the reasons I use them :-) I have carpal tunnel, and over the weekend I tore a ligament between the bicep and forearm. Thanks to the way Japanese tools are designed I'm still able to work comfortably. Besides, your not really using your back to pull ;-) Even pulling a 120mm plane is easy on the body:



I even make my Krenov style planes to be pulled:

[David Weaver]

Dale, they are definitely a lot easier on the elbows and shoulders, that's for certain, especially in a heavy cut.

I like your krenov design much better than the standard design - it wouldn't have such a restriction on the length of the iron, which I think is very limiting if someone uses their planes a lot - they'll only get a fraction of the iron life that current krenov irons will give someone before they'll need to have something welded to them to adjust them in the plane.