Saw tooth set

[lowell holmes]

Bob Rozaieski states in one of his videos about sharpening hand saw that he prefers the teeth on his saws to be set about the thickness of a playing card. That is about 0.001". I guess different paying cards have different thickness.

My 9 point Disston 20 has about .003" set and recently while cross cutting a piece of 10/4 cherry, the kerf closed a bit as the cut became deeper and tended to bind the blade. Paraffin wax didn't help much. I'm not sure the saw is taper ground,which would help.

What do you handsaw experts have to say about the amount of set?

I am NOT questioning Bob's statement.

I have a Taintor No 7 set. I found a Taintor booklet on line that said to start with anvil # 4 and see if that was appropriate. They obviously didn't measure the amount of set.

[Marv Werner]

Lowell,

A playing card is more than .001, more like .005 or more. .001 would be like tissue paper.

The Taintor saw set has numbers on the anvil. The numbers do not correspond to the tooth size as you probably learned from the instructions. The problem I have with numbered anvils, you don't have an infinite range to use when setting the teeth. You either use one of the flats or the other. I much prefer the Stanley 42X saw set that has a tapered anvil that can be adjusted to any setting you want. You can start with the nearly no set at all and then increase the set a little at a time until your saw stops binding in the kerf.

Your Disston No.20 is in fact taper ground.

If you use the auction site that is not allowed to be mentioned here in this forum, you can find the Stanley 42X up for auction on a regular basis.

Here's what it look like...

I inserted some pictures but they disappeared....

IMG_1108.JPGIMG_1112.JPG

[Robert Rozaieski]

Lowell,
As Marv says, a playing card is much more than 0.001" thick, but that's not really that important in this situation. The important thing to note is that the kerf closed up. When the kerf starts to close on you, no amount of set is really going to help, nor will wax. There are a couple of things that I try when a kerf begins to close. The first is to remove the saw from the kerf and restart the cut. This will remove more material from the kerf and potentially solve the problem. However, there is also a chance that the kerf will continue to close, even if you do restart the cut. In this case, what I find to be the best solution is to heavily wax the blade, restart the cut, and once the saw is far enough into the cut, put a small wedge in the end of the kerf to hold it open. Most of the time, when the kerf closes and pinches the blade, the tenison in the wood that is causing the kerf to close is greater than any amount of set, so I typically have to rely on wedging it open until the cut has progressed far enough that the kerf no longer pinches.

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Marv said.

Look carefully at the 42X. Stanley made a few that look similar.

The correct set on a saw will also depend on the kind of saw and what is being sawn.

Some woods will expand as they are being cut. Things like pine being ripped are going to close the kerf behind the saw. For this even wildly excessive set will not help. Use a wooden wedge to hold the kerf open.

As Marv suggested, start with the minimum set. This is how my back saws are all set. For relatively shallow cuts and even long tenons they work well.

For some of my bigger saws that are used out in the pasture or wood shed a bit more set is used on the bigger teeth. This helps to keep the saw from stalling in wet wood.

Just for fun, I measured a deck of cards. 11/16" is what a fresh deck with jokers measured. Divided by 54 and it comes out to almost 0.013" for a playing card.

jtk

[george wilson]

Typing paper is usually .005" thick. I don't have a playing card,but it must be about twice as thick as typing paper.

A saw with too much set will saw horribly rough,and you will think it is a bad saw. MANY years ago I had a Spear and Jackson rip that sawed very roughly,and had a terrible feel to it. When I hammered most of the set out of it,it sawed quite well. This must have been in the 1960's.

[lowell holmes]

Thanks, guys.

I have removed most of the set on this and other saws by stoning. I think in the future I will use a hammer to adjust the set.

I think I have my father's saw set which is a Stanley. I will take another look at it.

I'm not sure, but I think the saw belonged to my wife's Grandfather who was a stair builder in Hoboken back in the early 1900's.

It has a special space in my shop. It is a first run D20.

I went back and checked. The playing card is .012" thick.

[Chris Fournier]

Others have corrected the paper, card thickness issue. Paper is a great way to aid in setting up machining operations using the paper as a non work/tooling marring shim with a known thickeness.

I would say this: there is no real advantage to having your saw set as fine as possible as the cost of doing this is binding which far and away offets any advantage of a fine set which is supposed to be "accuracy" or the ability to cut a straight kerf to the line.

I set my saws so that binding is not an issue in most all situations and I tackle the ability to saw to a line with decent technique which invloves practice.

[george wilson]

A piece of paper in a smooth jawed milling machine vise will prevent slipping. With the bare steel jaw,sometimes you can tighten the work like crazy,and it may slip under cutting pressure.

[Jim Matthews]

5 inches of material is definitely subject to some movement.

When I crosscut logs for firewoo by hand, I tap in a wedge behind the saw blade.

If you're binding at the onset, you may need to flip the board to start from the opposite face.

[Ken Martin]

Taintor 7

I have a Taintor No 7 set. I found a Taintor booklet on line that said to start with anvil # 4 and see if that was appropriate. They obviously didn't measure the amount of set.

Lowell
My father used a Taintor #7 and when he gave it to me he said to use:
#1&2 - 10 or 11 tooth saw
#3-4-5-6 - medium set
#7-8-9-10 - coarse set
He used #8 for his 8 pt Crosscut and #10 for his 5 1/2 rip and #3 or 4 for his 11 pt finish saw.

[Marv Werner]

The Taintor saw set comes with a thin washer that is stored under the head of the screw that tightens the anvil. That washer is meant to be inserted under the anvil for setting smaller teeth. This is explained in the instructions. The washer raises the anvil just a bit so the bend in smaller teeth will occur higher up on the tooth. Sometimes this washer is missing on a used saw set. So for those of you who might want to buy one, look to see that the washer is present.

[lowell holmes]

I looked and I don't see the washer. However, I did go ahead and set the teeth on my 9pt crosscut with the no. 3 anvil. The saw is performing very well now.

Now I have a shortened 10 tpi D23 that I damaged a tooth in the middle of the saw. I now have the choice of severely floating the saw and attempting to re-shape the teeth. I think I will take it to Circle Saw in Houston and spend $4 to have it sharpened on a machine they have and then cleaning up the burrs and set on it. I know that's heresy in this group.

[Marv Werner]

Lowell,

If you only have one damaged tooth on a 10PPI saw, it won't noticeably effect the sawing. When that happens to me, I just leave it that way and depend on future sharpenings for it to grow back.

[lowell holmes]

"[QUOTE=Marv Werner;1658940]Lowell,

I much prefer the Stanley 42X saw set that has a tapered anvil that can be adjusted to any setting you want. You can start with the nearly no set at all and then increase the set a little at a time until your saw stops binding in the kerf.

If you use the auction site that is not allowed to be mentioned here in this forum, you can find the Stanley 42X up for auction on a regular basis."




I picked one up for 99 cents plus shipping. It will have some rust showing, but that can be dealt with.