Shooting planes compared

[Derek Cohen]

I had the opportunity to directly compare the LN #51, LN #9 and LV LAJ on different shooting boards. My observations are here:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...sCompared.html

Looking forward to any discussion ...

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Paulson]

Nicely done, Derek. I would love to make a ramped shooting board. Any tips on making the ramp? Since I recently purchased a LV LAJ I'm thrilled with it's capabilities. Acquiring the LN 51, however sweet, will be down the road for this guy.

Take care,
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Jim

I will shortly have a pictorial on my website for a ramped board.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

I have and have used both of the cheaper planes (but not the 51). I agree with the assessment for shooting (i'm kind of indifferent about which one I will use, though I use the LN most of the time because you can pay attention less when pushing it.

I do like the LN a lot better for shooting long grain to joint veneers, but that preference is mostly because it's a higher bed angle. I keep it at 50.

I could get along with either just fine, especially having an extra iron for the LAJ. I think with it, it's not necessary for me to have the LN plane, but it was one of those planes where you use someone else's for the first time (the LN) and you just feel it as easier to use initially, and then it becomes one of those things you buy when you have the extra money floating around.

For practical purposes, anyone who has an LN jointer can just strike the long grain with the jointer. Now that the excitement has worn off, I get a little less sure that I'm keeping the #9 as time goes by, especially since I don't use the LAJ for anything else, and it basically sits in the box dormant unless I want to trim the endgrain making a moulding plane. It seems like a waste to have both.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks Derek. Very timely as I am fooling with shooting boards currently and making some decisions.

[Jim Paulson]

Great Derek on the upcoming pictorial on making a ramped shooting board. I look forward to seeing it. Make no mistake I'll certainly want to check out the LN 51 at an event. I was surprised though that the LN #9 with it's larger side profile didn't fare better in performance. I say that without having taken a test drive yet on on the LN #9 or #51.

Take care,
Jim

[Gary Benson]

I know the exact cutting dynamics of a ramped board vs skewed plane have generated some heated discussion in the past. But, will the ramped board increase or decrease the effective skew of the #51? I can't quite get my head around the geometry. I look forward to hearing your practical testing results.
Gary

[Zahid Naqvi]

Like others have said, nice article. I had not heard about a ramped shooting board but it makes a lot of geometric sense.

[Derek Cohen]

I know the exact cutting dynamics of a ramped board vs skewed plane have generated some heated discussion in the past. But, will the ramped board increase or decrease the effective skew of the #51? I can't quite get my head around the geometry. I look forward to hearing your practical testing results.
Gary

Hi Gary

As I mentioned in my article, I am trying to not argue a case for a ramped board over a flat board. That may be a misleading conclusion.

What I think is important is that the blade enters the wood on a skew. Direct, flat, edge-on contact makes for a hard impact.

How we get the skew is another matter. It can come from the plane ... or it can come from the board.

Also important is a low cutting angle when planing end grain. Not essential (clearly, bearing in mind that we successfully use many planes), but ideal.

So I start thinking that a 20 degree skew is great (on the #51), but add another 5 degrees (from the ramped board) and you notice that the combined 25 degrees is even better. Is it the ramped board or the total skew?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

Derek,

Thanks for taking the time to share this information with all of us.

Learning the techniques of shooting board use is, imo, one of the foundations of wood working.

jtk

[Trey Palmer]

Thanks for the post Derek.

I played with a LN #51 recently at Highland Hardware, with a flat shooting board. That thing is really, really sweet. But, having not yet even spent three figures on a plane, I do not anticipate owning a $500 plane in the foreseeable future, especially for such a specialized task. :-)

I'm going to buy a LAJ for shooting and other general use. In a moment of frustration I actually almost went down the street over the weekend and bought a LN #62, but was saved by it being right at 6PM when HH closes. I'll probably order the Veritas eventually instead, it seems to be the better tool for my needs despite not being quite as pretty.

Your many posts over the years on this subject have been hugely helpful to me.

[Andrew Gibson]

I spent some time today prepping stock for making some boxes. I will be demonstrating for my club at the Tampa Woodworking show. Hopefully cutting a few dovetails and maybe demonstrate how to dimension rough stock by hand.

I made box pieces today for 4 jewelry boxes and used my LV LAJ on my shooting board. I have to say I am extremely happy with my choice on the LAJ. I can also see it having quite a few other uses such as smoothing large panels and with the addition of a different blade smoothing difficult woods.

[Eric Brown]

Thanks for the info Derek. My question deals with your testing of shooting boaords and the various planes you used for testing. I also looked at the LN website about their #51.
All of your testing seems to focus on end grain. Granted that end grain can be tougher, but what about shooting the sides of the boards? Are there any tearout issues or grain orientations to be considered? Also, I use teflon tape for the "bed" of my shooting boards to reduce friction. Do you use any form of lubricant or wax? I also use denatured alchol to ease the cutting and make smoother cuts on end grain. Does the LN #51 benefit from any of these tricks or does it eliminate the need? When you talked with LN, did they give a hint as to when the shooting board might be available?

Thanks. Eric

[Derek Cohen]

My God Eric, you do ask a few questions!

End grain versus side grain. The reason for the length of the boards (about 18" total) is so that you can do side grain. End grain really only needs about 8". Wider than this and you would be using thicker boards, which could be planed at the bench.

A higher cutting angle (say 45 degrees) would be preferred over a lower cutting angle (say 37 degrees) for side grain, but I have not experienced the latter being disadvantaged (as it would on face grain) with regard possible tearout. It rarely occurs. This may be a product of the very sharp blade and narrow edges.

Lubrication. I always wax the wooden runway, and sometimes the plane. With the #51/52 I add a drop of Camellia Oil. Never felt the need for any special material on the runway. A little wax is all one needs.

Easing cutting. Denatured alcohol (here in Oz it is methylated spirits) is a useful adjust to shooting brittle endgrain. I would rarely need it otherwise.

There is a contentious issue in this area. Some contend that the fence must extend to the edge of the blade to support the board in order to prevent spelching (breakout). I disagree. I contend that the fence is simply to hold the board at the desired angle, nothing more. Shooting ends is no different from any other joint-making ... we work to a line. Shooting should always work to a knife line. And when we do so then one should take a chisel and chamfer the end of the board to the line. That is what will prevent spelching. When we "run in" a shooting board we can end up with the perfect set up to use the fence to prevent spelching. However, the next time you use the board and the blade is set a tad deeper, you will destroy that perfect set up. Now you cannot rely on the fence any longer, and correct technique is needed instead.

When will LN? Your guess is as good as mine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Eric Brown]

Thanks Derek. You filled in a lot of information gaps I had.
Do you have a sticking board yet?
I found out an interesting use for my shooting board.
I put a toothed blade into my LAJ and I can make perfect parallel grooves to a uniform depth.
Not sure how to use that yet, but someday it may be usefull.

Thanks again. Eric