jointer and planers recommendations

[George Panagopoulos]

I am setting up a new shop in about a year, so I have been trying to learn a great deal and this site has been very helpful. Since I am starting fresh I would like some opinions on separates vs. euro jointer planers. I am looking for quality equipment and not interested in rebuilding old equipment.

The question I have is if I have adequate room and budget, what would be better separates like Powermatic 16" jointer and PM201HH (22") planer vs. a 16" j/p like the Felder? The costs seems similar for either option. I'd like so select good equipment that will last 15-20 yrs.

[Mike Mastin]

Personally I like separates as I could upgrade one without replacing both and having a limited audience that would be interested in purchasing a Euro style all in one type piece of equipment. Felder is nice stuff, but the Euro systems just have not caught on here in the US for what ever reason. Again Felder makes very nice equipment, but the separate units would allow for upgrades much easier IMO. Who knows, maybe you might consider down grading a unit in the future to one with less capacity (though i would doubt it).

[Andrew Gibson]

I have to say you have good taste.
My dream machine would be a 16" combo machine. I would love a 16" jointer. I really do not see a time in the near future when I would have room for 2 machines of such size. If you have cash and room for 2 large machines I think separate would be more convenient.

Personally I have a hard time believing I will end up with anything larger then something like the 12" Jet JJP.

[Frank Drew]

George,

If you have the space in your shop, and the cost is more or less the same, individual machines make the most sense, IMO. When you consider the greater capacity (just about always a good thing) you'd get in a 22" planer, plus the upgrade/resale issues, plus the ease of using and, inevitably, servicing separate machines...

I didn't know that Powermatic made a 16" jointer; wide is nice, and I'd never argue against more capacity, but I don't think you'd be unhappy with a quality 12" machine.

You wrote: "I am looking for quality equipment and not interested in rebuilding old equipment." Lots of older, excellent machinery is ready to go without any refurbishing beyond maybe some cleaning and having the blades sharpened; don't discount the many advantages of used -- excuse me, pre-owned -- equipment.

[glenn bradley]

I'm happier with separates.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a 12 inch combination machine, a Hammer A3-31.

I went from a General jointer and planer to the Hammer, to increase my jointer capacity without taking up a lot of room.

I'd consider General equipment to be the same as made in USA Powermatic equipment, and I find that the Hammer machine leaves a superior finish compared to the General machines.

The Felder equipment is even better, with a wide range of options.

If you don't like combination machines, buy the Felder individual machines, much nicer than Powermatic.

You really do need to go to a Felder dealer and have a look at the equipment, there's a good reason that sales are growing in NA for the Euro equipment..........Regards, Rod.

[jonathan eagle]

I have a lunchbox 12" planer and a 6" jointer. I'm upgrading to a 12" sch combo machine. I still plan to use the lunchbox and keep the combo setup as a jointer. So my vote is for seperates.
(Except if I think I need good finishes on both sides.) Since you are starting with nothing, it's a different problem.

[John Morrison60]

Much like Rod, I obtained a 12" Minimax Jointer/Planer after using separate machines.
I much prefer the combo machine.
Overall quality is superb.
Changeover between jointing and planing is easy, not a problem.

One huge advantage in my mind to the combo machines, is the fact that when you
want to install a helix head, you only need one head to service both jointing and planing.

I installed a Byrd Shelix head in my Minimax, and I think it is about perfect now.

Good luck
John

[scott vroom]

Other than a small footprint, what are the advantages of a combo vs separate equipment? Are you a hobbiest or will this be for a business? Are you planning to do production cabinet work? If so, have you considered changeover time of a combo JP? If you have the floor space and the money to spend, you might find separate equipment more convenient.

The euro brands were never an option for me due to cost. My son and I launched a small cabinet business last year on new Grizzly equipment, including an 8" jointer and 15" planer (both with spiral cutters). When rushing to get out a job, it's nice to go from jointer to planer without constant changeovers.

[Ryan Hellmer]

I have no experience with a combo, but do wonder it they would be better. I have a 16" crescent jointer and 18" woodmaster planer (hopefully with a 20" PM on the way). I'm running out of room! I like the BIG jointer for facing, but I use my 6" for all edging so that's yet another machine. I think the "inconvenience" that some people think combo's create is simply a lack of planning. When I run my stock I do all the facing, then all the planing, then all the edging, then all the ripping. That way I'm not hop-scotching between and over machines as it's a real hassle with my power cord and dust collector situation (1 hookup each). If money isn't an issue and space isn't an issue I'd buy separate, if either are, I'd seriously consider the combo. I haven't heard too many complaints about Felder.

Ryan

[Paul Symchych]

Before jumping on which machine to get it could be helpful to decide what you expect to use it for.
All very well to say 'buy a Ferrari' because its a fine machine but if its only to run to Circle K and back??

[Ira Matheny]

I have an 8" long bed joiner and a 16" planer. I like the seperate equipment as I can move from one to the other with only the flip of a switch. Time of convert and check accuracy is not to my liking.

I have had only one project that could not be handled with these two. It was a game table top that was 30" square.

I say '2 thumbs up' for seperates.

[scott vroom]

When I run my stock I do all the facing, then all the planing, then all the edging, then all the ripping. Ryan

Ryan, that's an interesting workflow. I prefer to rip first, for 2 reasons:

1) Narrowing a cupped board generally reduces the amount of face jointing required. Face jointing an 8" board with a 1/8" cup means I have to thin the board at least 1/8" on the jointer. If I rip that same board into 3 strips, the cupping on the narrower boards will be significantly reduced.

2) I find that when I rip a board after it has been straightened/flattened it often moves out of square in one or both directions. At that point the boards are useless for that project.

The workflow I prefer is edge joint, rip, edge joint, face joint, plane

[Mike Mastin]

I always give all rough lumber a visual inspection for twist, warp, bow, etc. If there are issues such as these I set this lumber aside. All lumber that is fairly free of these defects, I will skip plane so that i can determine what the color, grain patterns and figure of each board looks like. After this I then plan out the use for a board and cut to size plus 1". I then face joint one face and edge, then I plane the boards to final thickness.
I never cut any board to specific lengths for a project without first skip planing them as I am picky about color, grain and figure of each piece that I want to use in any project. Those boards that were found to be twisted, warped, bowed etc I normally determine the maximum lengths I can get from each board with minimal surface material removal to get a good flat board. I almost always use these boards for secondary pieces of a project, unless they turn out to be something spectacular.

The wood dictates where it will be used in a project, not whether I can get specific number of pieces or lengths from a board.

[David Kumm]

I think a sliding saw shaper can make sense but don't think you should rule out older jointers or planers. You can buy a northfield 12 or 16 hd for 2500-4500. Even an oliver 166bd 12" for less than 3500. Powermatic 18 or 24 inch planers, or rockwell wedgebed 18 can be had for a couple of thousand or so. There is no comparison in the jointer or even the planer area with old cast iron machines. The jointer in particular needs mass and flat tables. I would only trade my porter for a format or martin- at about 25000 more. Old machine prices are down and lots are available if you are a little patient. I started out with new taiwan-at the time- delta type equipment, went to felder and knapp - and upgraded to old oliver planers, and bandsaws, porter jointer, yates american etc. They are a joy to use. Still have the euro sliders and shapers because they are the best at what they do, but the old stuff will smoke anything but the very top end today unless you need the electronics. Dave