Jet DC cone tech - WHY NO RETROFIT????

[Bruce Wrenn]

Replacement parts are where the money is. When I was in the heavy construction business, the joke was the "You paid for Cat loaders at the showroom, but you paid for International loaders at the parts counter." Quit your belly aching and take that energy and build you a BETTER MOUSE TRAP (AKA a Phil Thien baffle.)

[Sean Hughto]

Yeah, Bruce, thanks for the "belly ache" prescription.

I've taken care of myself already on this.

As for replacement parts, I don't think you understand; these aren't just expensive, they are priced to force you to buy a new unit if you want the $20 worth of extra parts.

- A new Jet 1100 with a cannister at Woodcraft is $629 (821769).
- A new Jet 1100 with a cannister and vortex parts is $649 (849645)
- Jet wants $590 for the cone, alone, and by the time you have bought the bracket and nuts and bolts, the replacement parts will likely equal or exceed the cost of a new unit.

- Jet's own pricing suggests the parts are worth $20.

Jet can kiss my belly aching you know what.

[Jim Neeley]

I own a Jet 1100 without the cone and would love one too, but let's be fair... Jet has developed this cone as a "product differentiator" to differentiate their product from cloning companies and promote 1100 sales. If they offered this cone as an inexpensive add-on everybody and his brother would buy one and add it to their HF or other product and Jet's product differentiator is gone.

They make their money selling $600 DC's, not $35 add-ons no-name clones. I'm sure a fair amount of $$$ went into testing to size and shape the cone. Hopefully they have patented this. A patent won't prevent individuals from copying the cone for personal use but it'll help keep "copy-cats" from steeling their intellectual property and investment.

This from an owner of the 1100. If there was a way they could sell this such that it'd only work with Jet 1100's, I'd be complaining too but since there isn't, if you want it, CL your existing unit and buy new.

[Bruce Wrenn]

So just buy the new unit and sell your old one. I don't think Jet is exactly worried about you ranting either.

[Sean Hughto]

I own a Jet 1100 without the cone and would love one too, but let's be fair... Jet has developed this cone as a "product differentiator" to differentiate their product from cloning companies and promote 1100 sales. If they offered this cone as an inexpensive add-on everybody and his brother would buy one and add it to their HF or other product and Jet's product differentiator is gone.

This is a good point. I hadn't thought about the clones. However, I think if they have your warranty card or you can provide a serial number or otherwise show that you bought an 1100, you should be given a fair shot at the cone parts. They could make it $75 instead of $20, and I would think that's fine.

The part that bugs me is that the clogging filter has always been a design flaw of this type of collector. They finally did a simply design fix that addresses the flaw, and they want to deny it to the suckers who bought the flawed version. If you've seen the video ad they have for the vortex, it is an idictment of the present model in that it shows how readily and how badly the filter clogs. The flappers don't help much as I'm sure you know as you own one. I hate having to shop vac that thing out everytime the unit gets any use.

if you want it, CL your existing unit and buy new.

Yeah, this option is crap. A used dust collector on CL is gonna get what, maybe half the purchase price at BEST. So you are out of pocket $325 to obtain a $20 set of parts that makes your unit work like it should have in the first place.

But again, I've converted mine to a two stage collector, so they can keep their cones. And while Bruce thinks Jet don't care (and he's probably right), Jet has lost my goodwill. I have a shop full of Jet and Powermatic tools. When I upgrade various pieces of equipment, I'll be looking hard to avoid those brands going forward. I'm willing to try my luck with some other manufacturers who might see taking care of loyal customers as more of a priority when they produce products with flaws they later find ways to cheaply correct.

[David Cramer]

And while Bruce thinks Jet don't care (and he's probably right), Jet has lost my goodwill. [/QUOTE]

Sorry Sean, I disagree. Jet does care and knows that something negative about their product does in fact affect their sales, especially on a site with as much traffic as SMC. To exactly what percentage is something that no one could know for sure, but it DOES affect their sales.

David

[Kevin Gregoire]

here is a link to a post where a guy used a salad bowl to make his cone and it worked perfect

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...91&rid=3215663

[Dan Hintz]

Looks like a wok, or a large stir-fry pan with the handle removed.

[Howard Acheson]

Looks like a wok, or a large stir-fry pan with the handle removed.

That's what it is according to the article.

[Joseph Tarantino]

great innovation using the wok to retro-fit the functionality of the vortex to older jet DCs. i am not surprised that jet has again fallen short of its customers' expectations. sooner or later, jet and powermatic are going to exhaust the supply of customers who are willing to pay premium prices for decidedly average tools.

[Michael Kellough]

I bought the Jet Canister DC when it first came out and it's always been frustratingly quick to clog. If you don't empty the collection bag when it's 1/3rd full about half of the additional debris ends up in the filter. In fact, simply running the DC disconnected from a dust making machine at 1/3rd full for 15 minutes will reduce the amount of debris in the collection bag because the vortex sends so much stuff upstairs. At half full you have to sweep the filter every 10 minutes to keep a table saw running cleanly

Jet's video does indicate that the cone reduces that problem but if you think about the path dust takes to get to the pleated filter the cone doesn't seem like the best solution. I think I'll wait and see what Phil comes up with.

[Lawrence Richards]

I also just added a wok lid with a strap--

Since I added the "cone" I have dimensioned up some white oak in the planer, jointer, and tablesaw-- I have also cut quite a bit of MDF on my tablesaw and had a quick shop cleanup. All in all, I probably collected about 2 coffee cans worth of dust. This afternoon I unscrewed the canister and peeked inside-- the shelf (for the first time EVER) was clean and the inside of the filter was very clean. This week I plan to do a more controlled test-- I'm going to clean out the filter and bag, unscrew the wok and suck in various sawdust at various levels of concentration. I'll then reclean the filter and bag and try it with the wok lid in place and will post the results.

I understand there are concerns that the filter is not getting the "finest material". The purpose of the cone is not to improve the fineness of the filter- it is to decrease the filling of the canister with dust which clogs it significantly and decreases suction. If we can keep the filter clean, suction is greatly improved and this makes it easier to collect the dust at the source--but I do appreciate the sentiment of your concern.

More to come on the cone-- but from what I can tell- it Woks well (and costs a lot less than $500 unless LOML finds out I took her lid in which case it could end up costing me much more than $500 in hospital bills)

Oh yeah, and here's my original post with pics-
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...t-like-a-charm
Lawrence

[Bob Wingard]

You folks may want to read this if you wish to retrofit without the expense ... it looks like this guy's come up with a very workable solution.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lector-woks-on

Here's another home brew solution ...

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f32/j...-dc1100-27121/

[Kevin Gregoire]

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/to...lector-woks-on

bob, that is the same article i posted above in post #82

[Alan Schaffter]

All I can say is the Jet cone is turning a sow's ear into a purse made from a sow's ear! It ain't no silk purse! The big problem with most (all) single stage DC's is the collar unit design is fundamentally and completely wrong. There are so many ways to do a much better job. It wouldn't take any more metal and not much more fabrication for the makers of single stage DC's to make a collar that is more like the top part of a cyclone separator, something that helps separate out the dust and keeps the incoming dust laden air away from the air that is headed up to the filter. It really shows how little research, engineering, and testing goes into some products today. It is more about gimmicks that "sound good" than it is about performance.