Why Not A Roughing Gouge?

[johnny means]

Decided to drop in on the turners forum today and saw a thread ripping some kid for his choice of tooling. Apparently, a roughing gouge is not the tool of choice for hollowing.

Can someone explain why? To the uninitiated (me) the operation in question seemed to work with no apparent reason to be overly concerned. Up until five minutes ago I would have done the same thing. So now I know what NOT to do but not WHY. What about the mechanics of the roughing gouge make it unsuitable for hollowing and what could happen?

[Bob Bergstrom]

That large blade provides a whole bunch of toque if you have a catch. The tang is only a small flat piece of steel hence it will snap and the blade will become a projectile.
OUCH!!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bowl gouges are cylindrical and maintain a constant diameter into the handle.

Spindle roughing gouges tend to be large at the working end and have a tapered tang inside the handle. If you get a catch with the wide blade, it is realitively easy to break the tang.

Very early when I first started turning, I had a bad catch break a spindle gouge (not a roughing gouge) and believe me it's an eye opening experience.

[Fred Belknap]

I use mine to round up bowl blanks when I first started turning. Had no ill effect but I have come to realize it isn't the thing to do. The roughing gouge is made from a flat piece of metal shaped somewhat like a bastard file and then the file section is made into a curve. The tang is kinda small for the size of the cutting area. It us used for spindle work. Making spindle blanks round.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I won't go into details but my neighbor used a roughing gouge to try and round up a bowl blank. Needless to say after a trip to the emergency room for 17 stitches he borrowed my DVD from Bill Grumbine on turning bowls.

[Dale Miner]

Several reasons to not use a roughing gouge, the weak tang part as mentioned is one. In spindle turning, the fibers of the wood are running lenghtwise to the lathe, and the gouge gets under them and cuts them off in either a peeling mode, or in a slicing mode depending on how the gouge is presented. When the fibers are cut in this fashion they cut relatively easy. In bowl turning, half the time, the fibers are presented end grain. Cutting end grain is the most difficult way to cut the fibers, and requires substantially more force. With a roughing gouge, to take a cut 1/4" deep, approx 5/8" or more of edge will be cutting wood at one time. With a bowl gouge, depending on presentation, to take a cut 1/4" deep, might only have 5/16" of edge cutting wood. Also, typically when doing spindle work, the overhang of the gouge is usually very small, 1/2" or so. When hollowing a bowl, the tool overhang is generally much greater, sometimes as much as 3". So the combination of more cutting edge, cutting end grain, and tool overhang all put a great deal of strain on the smaller tang of a roughing gouge. In addition to the above, the grind on the end of the gouge leaves very little margin for error. The straight up wings are very easy to 'catch' the corner when hollowing a bowl, and even when working on the outside of a bowl.

[Steve Vaughan]

I wasn't hollowing a bowl, but using mine to rough out a green blank. Had a great big ole catch and POW! Broke that tang with quite a bang. Luckily, no injury and lesson learned. Anyone want to buy a used roughing gouge?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I wasn't hollowing a bowl, but using mine to rough out a green blank. Had a great big ole catch and POW! Broke that tang with quite a bang. Luckily, no injury and lesson learned. Anyone want to buy a used roughing gouge?

Steve......are you selling it as 2 separate pieces....or as a single unit?

[Reed Gray]

A spindle roughing gouge can be used on bowls, but is far from the best and safest tool for the job. For roughing, it is lousy for removing a lot of wood fast. For me (all of God's children are different, and some of us are more different than the rest) the best tool is a scraper. For finish cuts, you can roll a SRG on its side and get a nice shear cut on the outside of the bowl. It is very difficult to do this same cut on the inside of a bowl. The square face (as in no sweep back) makes for a catch prone tool. The corners are the danger area, especially if the gouge flutes are straight up and down. If you work on the corner, you are on the edge of a tetter totter, and the corner will roll into the side of the bowl: KABLOOIE!!!! There is also a Continental/Broad Sweep type of SRG that some use in this same way. It is much flatter, like this ) as compared to C shaped. It will also give a nice shear/finish cut on both the inside and outside of a bowl, and some use it this way. I have experimented with it, especially after a rather spirited discussion with another turner who prefers it for his finish cuts, and found that it does work, but I can't feel comfortable with it. On the inside of the bowl, he does not rub the bevel, which is really weird, but it does work. A standard bowl gouge works a lot better. More mass of steel where you need it the most, and the shape is specialized for bowls.

robo hippy

[Richard Jones]

A former coworker gave me a really nice Swan incannel gouge, about 1 1/2", told me that he had turned "lots" of bowls with it. I guess my horror was obvious, but regardless, I kept the gouge. I turned him a vase or something as a thank you, and told him that his gouge did a great job............. I still have it boxed up with some other tools that will never get used......... I seriously doubt whether he ever turned a single bowl with this gouge or anything else, but I wasn't gonna argue with him. I wound up giving him an old Craftsman tube lathe that I had, and you would have thought it was manna......

Let's be careful out there......

Steve, those two pieces of spindle gouge could be put on the bay as "no missing parts, needs some repair."

Rich

[robert baccus]

I have been using roughing gouges on the OUTSIDE of bowls for years. they work very well BUT the secret is to grind that 45 deg. bevel to a 15deg bevel---almost square. thenit becomes a very well behaved tool. but only then.--------old forester

[Prashun Patel]

Apart from all the reasons mentioned below, I'd find the width and prominent corners of a roughing gouge hard to manipulate inside a curve. A catch would at LEAST damage the bowl quite badly.

[Scott Hackler]

When I started out (not knowing any better) I used a 3/8" spindle gouge as a roughing gouge and to hollow out a vessel. Got a bad catch and the steel snapped off at the end of the handle and the flying metal made a 4" gouge in the palm of my hand. Really dangerous and really scarey. When I bought my first "real" bowl gouge, I instantly understood what the hubbub was about. A bowl gouge IS designed and crafted to withstand the incredible forces of hollowing bowls and vessels.

[Frank Van Atta]

When I started out (not knowing any better) I used a 3/8" spindle gouge as a roughing gouge and to hollow out a vessel. Got a bad catch and the steel snapped off at the end of the handle and the flying metal made a 4" gouge in the palm of my hand. Really dangerous and really scarey. When I bought my first "real" bowl gouge, I instantly understood what the hubbub was about. A bowl gouge IS designed and crafted to withstand the incredible forces of hollowing bowls and vessels.

Nothing wrong with using a spindle gouge for hollowing. Lots of turners have been doing that for lots of years.