add Soft Start on Cyclone?

[Will Blick]

I have a ClearVue Cyclone...the Leeson motor (5hp, 240V) is abused with start/stops when moving from machine to machine throughout the day... not good for motor life...

has anyone added a soft starter to increase motor life? If so, what model? Price?

For those not familiar, a soft starter ramps up the starting of a motor over several seconds to reduce the stress vs. instantaneous on.


TYIA

[Dennis Ford]

An alternative idea; consider a time delay relay to keep the cyclone running a few minutes while you move to a different machine. This should reduce the number of starts and would be much less expensive than a soft starter.

[Will Blick]

I have an EcoGate GreenBox 12, that leaves cyclone on for programmable time after stop...but only a few minutes... i hate hearing the thing all day... it seems I use machines for few minutes 5 -7 times an hour, vs. using one machine for extended time.... the motor is in an awkward spot, so I rather preserve it, vs. letting it burn out and have to replace it. Maybe these Leeson motors can take a beating? Most motors from my experience do not like excessive start /stops...

[Bruce Wrenn]

How often do you start / stop your table saw or air compressor? My DC is controled by a sensor that senses anytime there is current in any one of the machine circuits. Sometimes this is ten to fifteen starts per hour. Soft start is a technology that is used on universal motors to ramp up the speed and reduce reaction torque.

[Will Blick]

> My DC is controled by a sensor that senses anytime there is current in any one of the machine circuits.

My post above yours, describes the same system I use...

I never kept track, but DC starts/ stops 40x a day....

In addition to reducing start up torque, soft starters increase life span of motors that start / stop often, hence my interest. But maybe its possible these DC motors survive 10 years with no help... this is what I am curious about. A TS motor starts unloaded, DC motors start loaded, specially when the gates are closed for a few seconds....

[Howard Acheson]

Check with the motor manufacturer before you add a soft start. Dust collector fan plates are very heavy and draw lots of current from the moment the electrical connection is made. A tool like a table saw starts with no load on the motor. Dust collectors and compressors have high load on start up.

[Chip Lindley]

I never kept track, but DC starts/ stops 40x a day....

In addition to reducing start up torque, soft starters increase life span of motors that start / stop often, hence my interest. But maybe its possible these DC motors survive 10 years with no help... this is what I am curious about. A TS motor starts unloaded, DC motors start loaded, specially when the gates are closed for a few seconds....

WIll, with a 5hp, 240v motor, each time you start it up, the inrush current is huge. Rather than soft-start, consider just leaving the DC running for longer periods. Oneida cautions against excessive frequent starts of their systems, yet offers no soft-start feature.

40 starts / 8 hours = once every 12 minutes! Geez! IMO, your motor will last longer if you just let it run, PERIOD! You certainly won't spend much more for electric power. Frequent starts of a big 5hp motor surely adds kw-hours to your bill.

I think if soft-start were a big issue with DC systems, the BUZZ would be BIG in this forum. You are the first I recall, mentioning it.

[Will Blick]

Chip, my guess is, you are right, if DC motors burned out often, this thread / forum would have heard about it.... maybe the motors can take lots of start / stops without failing. I do notice the DC makers do not offer Soft Starters, I assume its because the price is so high, it makes economic sense to just replace the motors. My motor is 12ft high, and like a fool, some workers ran some duct holding structure and conduit above it... so I was just trying to avoid the huge hassle of trying to replace it in the future. If I ever install one of these in the future, I will be sure it remains in a more serviceable area. I emailed the new ClearVue owners, maybe they will have feedback on the life span of these motors when they start stop often...

Its the constant noise that I want to avoid, both annoying in shop, and to neighbors :-)

oh, btw, the high inrush current is less than a second, it costs virtually nothing.... but at about 20 amps per leg, running continuously would cost $5 per 10 hours at 10 cents per kwh... still not huge. But, my guess is, the motor draws a lot more amps with all the gates closed, which is what would occur if I just left it running.... that is the beauty of the Eco Gate system, you can forget about DC and just use the machines.

[Dennis Ford]

One reason you don't hear much about soft starters is the expense, it is industrial equipment. I have never even seen one for single phase motors, I am sure it can be done but would not want to pay for it.

[mreza Salav]

the motor draws a lot more amps with all the gates closed, which is what would occur if I just left it running....

Actually it's the opposite, it will draw much less amp if all the gates are closed, it may sounds counter intuitive but the motor has to do a lot less work if there is no air
to be moved (thus not much amp drawn).

I too think the electricity cost of running the motor all day might be more than the cost of changing the motor when it dies (depending on how frequently the motor dies).
I have not seen anybody on these forums complain their DC motor died because of too frequent start/stop cycles.

[Will Blick]

> Actually it's the opposite, it will draw much less amp if all the gates are closed,

Interesting, I will have to test this sometime, it does seem counter intuitive....

Agreed on the price issue... I have seen 240Volt soft starters, and the ones I stumbled across cost more than the motors, but never shopped for them.... like all electronics, there is industrial grade, prosumer grade and consumer grade levels... Interestingly enough my Festool TS75 Circ. Saw has a soft start built into it...

[Peter Clark]

I just put a soft start VFD (veriable frequency drive) on a 5hp 3 phase motor. I'm using it to convert from single phase. Cost was about $480.00 delivered from Factorymation.com you might take a look and see what they have to offer.

[Noah Katz]

My DC is controled by a sensor that senses anytime there is current in any one of the machine circuits.

Bruce, could you give some details?

Will, can the Ecogate be used w/o gates?

Even if it can, I suspect it's pretty pricey.

[Chris Parks]

As mentioned a few posts up a VFD will do this and you can also use it to change the speed if you want. Bill Pentz who designed the fan does not recommend running it over 4000 RPM. The VFD's we use have an RPM display on them though it only reads at half speed so a bit of basic mental maths is involved.

[Bruce Wrenn]

The system I use is based upon an article on FWW, Aug 2000. There is a sensor (made by SSAC) through which the machine leads pass. When it senses current flow, it trips relay to start DC. When it shuts off, a cube timer (not included in original article) allows the unit to run for about ten seconds to clear pipes. I never have to look for a remote. When I taught shop, the shop had only one control for the DC is a 3000sq ft shop. I vowed then to make mine automatic.