Xenetech vs Hermes Trophy Master

[Steve Kothig]

G'day to all. I'm looking for some comments on these two machines. I operated 2 lasers in my business and I'm thinking of adding a used diamond drag system. With the great advances that lasers have given, customers still have trophies with scratch engraving. Lately I'm seeing a lot of this work coming into my store.
Back to my problem of choose.
I've come across 2 diamond drag cnc systems. A Xenetech Viper 1313 which is a few years old and a New Hermes Trophy Master Engraver, age not sure but looks to be a few years old also.
Can someone tell me the pros and cons of these two systems, can one work them like an Epilog laser where you print directly from Coreldraw or do you need to run from there own software. Any advise on them would be helpful, any problems one has ran into.

Thank you
Steve

[Mike Null]

In both cases you must run them from their own software. Beyond that i can't offer much help except to say don't expect much in the way of tech support from either of those companies.

[Tony Lenkic]

Steve, as Mike said both systems will do all you need.
Doth systems run from native software and you would need to register with factory for support. That is an extra cost to consider.

If you go with Trophy Master I would be interested in Xenetech 1313 if you would provide the contact.

[rich santana]

i think i'm correct in saying you can go straight from Corel to Viper on the Xenetech. you can with the laser, i'm pretty sure 1313 same process.

[Gary Malone]

Beyond that i can't offer much help except to say don't expect much in the way of tech support from either of those companies.

I second that. I have an older 13X13 (before viper) and on my second and last Xenetech laser XLT2436. I really like their software for engraving, very easy set ups, especially multiple plates. I have had very little trouble from either machine but I have had software issues, mainly when I upgrade to their newer versions. When you need help, you can email or call and leave message for assistance, then wait for someone to call and for a FEE they will get the problem resolved. Maybe it's just me, but I feel after spending $70,000 over the years with a company they should fix MY problem with THEIR software for no charge. I stopped upgrading my software by the way, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Sorry for rant, but I have been in business for 35 years and I believe in taking care of my customers.

[Tony Lenkic]

Rotary engravers are not as lasers, they engrave vector lines only (dont think anyone would usebitmap dots to engrave on rotaries). If you send job from Corel to rotary it will engrave outlines. Hatch filling text is better to do from Xenetech software then Corel. It all depends what you intend to engrave if you wish to use Corel on 1313 machine.

[rich santana]

hhmmm. i have used xenetech's tech help and my only problem was the discrepancy of the time zones. their area rep here has actually been the best thing they could have. the updates have never been a problem and except for my rookie mistake of braking a lens, they have been a good company. imagine my surprise when i figured they would send me a lens for free....not...silly me. that was early on in my laser learning, never do that again.

[Gary Malone]

Well I have been a customer since 1999 and have NOT seen or heard from an area rep yet. Tech help will answer email problems and address them and if you can fix the problem yourself from there, it is no charge.

[rich santana]

hey Gary, pm me and i'll give you his name and number. good guy, willing to help.

[David Takes]

Steve,

Those are both good machines. One of the big differences to look at is the depth of the vice mechanism. I believe with the Trophymaster you will be able to vice larger items.

[Steve Kothig]

Thanks for all the advise. It's been a very busy week, I emailed both salers and neither has replied back. Because of all the trophy work coming into my store, I thought the next step would be to offer both scratch engrave and laser and give customer what they like. I was leaning to the Xenetech Viper 1313 because there website shows more as to what the machine can do, the Trophy Master has very little info on itself makes me wonder about how good the system is.
Again thank you all for your comments.
Steve

[Ross Moshinsky]

We do trophy plates several different ways.

Plastic - We use a lot of IPI's SAL series plastic. It's essentially Flexibrass at a lower cost. The major benefit is you can engrave a full sheet and have everything cut out and it's "perfect". The downside is the material is relatively expensive and takes up the laser.

Laser/Rotary Metal - We also use brass, brass coated steel, and Lazer Alum too. We use it for cups and more expensive trophies. It's a nicer look. We'll rotary or laser the material. Rarely do we do diamond drag. It just don't give that great of a presentation to me. Reminds me of 10-15 years ago. It would be nice to use something like Lazer aluminum all the time because it's relatively cheap BUT it's difficult to do large orders. Essentially you have to do batches of 12 at a time because otherwise cutting error will compound and leave you with everything off center. It also can be time consuming cutting different plate sizes for all different trophies. If you work with resins you will know what I'm talking about.

Sublimation - This is the most cost effective method to do things but it requires cheap labor. Someone needs to cut the plates. Then they need to sit down and align the plates on the heat press. Put it down for 30 seconds. Pull it off. Tape. Then repeat. It's a fairly labor intensive process BUT if you have an employee who is suited for the job, this is by far the best way to do things.

In the end, we do whatever suits our mood or the job. Would I buy a rotary for trophy plates? Probably not. Having a rotary machine does offer the ability to do gold brass and other on off jobs. If that interests you, then look into rotary engraving. If I were going to suggest buying something, buy a sublimation setup. Sublimation allows for good markup, low investment, and is incredibly versatile.

[Steve Kothig]

Problem with sublimation from what I understand is if you do not print regularly the print head clogs. I own a printer system that will imprint onto golf balls, hockey pucks, baseballs in a 4 color process, but if I don't print regularly my print head begins to clog, repeated cleans relieves this but it's a pain if there is no work for a week for the system. I do a lot of lamacoid, I also laser metal plates and get my customers to switch over, but the odd plate that is shield shaped comes in, and is not available for lasering, I've just been looking at other opt. The great thing about Sawmill is that individuals like your Ross provide great advise, and I'd like to thank you for your input.

[Scott Shepherd]

Problem with sublimation from what I understand is if you do not print regularly the print head clogs.

Not true these days. The Ricoh printers are doing great on that front. The Epson's are the one's with the clogging reputation. You can leave a Ricoh sit for a week without printing, no problem.

[Martin Boekers]

Sublimation - This is the most cost effective method to do things but it requires cheap labor. Someone needs to cut the plates. Then they need to sit down and align the plates on the heat press. Put it down for 30 seconds. Pull it off. Tape. Then repeat. It's a fairly labor intensive process BUT if you have an employee who is suited for the job, this is by far the best way to do things.

Ross, I do sublimation for alot of the things I do, mainly because I had so many issues with Alumark material, never could get consistancy from that stuff.
One thing with the dye sub plates is I leave a hairline around the plate layouts, then I can transfer a whole sheet at a time and then trim to the outline.
Saves a bit of time.

Another great thing I like about dye sub, is that all the resins and statues out there the laser brass plates always seem to clash. I use the gold metal
and have added a background fill color to accent the "Resin Bronze" It's a nice touch. Haven't seen the local competion do this. (yet )


Marty