Design Critiques #5

[Glenn Clabo]

Jim,
Welcome to SMC...

I also want you to know that one of the highlights of the Fine Furnishing Providence Show is your furniture. We really look forward to this show every year...but won't be able to make it this year. Here's hoping you get "Best of Show" again.

http://www.finefurnishingsshow.com/_...re_Makers.html

[Alan Turner]

I did suspect that the front of the chair was wider than the back. It would look odd were that not the case.

I can't see the relevant detail on the pix that Mark posted. But, why should that stop me from making a comment. Faced with the task on the back panel that you describe, I might think in terms of a bent lamination, in a bag. You already have a bag operation going. The resaswing is pretty quick, and you might be able to outsource it if you needed enough. Might be able to do the bagging all in one shot. As to the cove, I suspect it is a pretty small one. If so, I might try to hand bead it. Might actually be quicker. As to the tenon, Here I would think in terms of a loose tenon arrangement using a jigged up slot mortiser.

I know I could not make and sell that chair for $800, much less half of that. This is truly a labor of love, isn't it?

Hope you won't be a stranger here. NIce group of guys.

[Mark Singer]

Jim and Alan,

That is way too much work for $800!!! I agree! Just as a point of clarification, I didn't suggest the angles were 90 degrees on this chair...I said in a general sense, if a chair is all 90 degree angles it makes it look rigid.. This chair flows in a very wonderful way.

[Jim probst]

Glenn, thanks for your comments. It may very likely be my last year to Providence. I like the show, but it is such an ordeal. 16-18 hours one way in a box truck, and basically 6 to 7 days just to get there and back, and hopefully make some deliveries. Alan, thanks for the feedback. I'm definitely going to experiment with some other approaches as the way I'm doing it now is much to labor intensive.

[Chris Giles]

I would like to confine my coments to the Dora chair. It keeps giving me the impression that it is frowning. Since there is no functional necessity for all those downturned curves, I must assume the chair is unhappy. A silly impression, I realize, but genuine.

[Tom LaRussa]

I would like to confine my coments to the Dora chair. It keeps giving me the impression that it is frowning. Since there is no functional necessity for all those downturned curves, I must assume the chair is unhappy. A silly impression, I realize, but genuine.

Hmm...

I have no idea whether the chair is happy or not.

I will grant your point that the down-turned curves are not necessary, but then neither is all that empty space underneath the chair.

But if I remember my basic European history text correctly, folks as far back as the Romans have found such shapes to be quite functional. In fact, I was in Rome a few months back and I saw them all over the place: the Coliseum, St. Peter's, the ancient aqueducts, etc.

[Chris Giles]

Tom,
I was referring to the arches necessity in the visual sense. The Romans built their arches as a means of support as well as for their beauty as you know. You are surely not suggesting that this chair would fail structurally without these curves. Therefore we must take these forms as a series of sculptural expressions interacting with the other elements of the chair. In my opinion, an honest first impression can be a valuable critique to the designer, although it is certainly not a complete one. Often times a photographed object conveys a very different feel than seeing the actual piece. We all make many final design decisions at the workbench rather than the drawing board. I think this chair, when seen three dimensionally, might convey a very different impression to me than the slight sadness I see now.

[Jim probst]

Chris,
I just had to reply to this one. It's funny that you would see sad when I see the curved form as being lifting in nature. Is it a glass half full or half empty sort of thing?
Jim Probst

[Tom LaRussa]

Hi Chris,

Sorry for being a bit obtuse.

You are surely not suggesting that this chair would fail structurally without these curves.

Note: The following is based on my extremely slight knowledge -- about as close to nil as possible -- of the principles of engineering and the like.

With that said, it is my understanding that an arch can carry a greater load in relation to its own mass than a horizontal cross member can carry in relation to its mass.

Thus, I think, the use of arches allows the designer to make a frame lighter/finer/thinner/what-have-you than if he used horizontal members.

That's why I said that I think the curves are structural even if they are not necessary.

Does that make sense?

[Chris Giles]

Tom,

Wood derives its strength entirely from its directional grain. In architecture, this type of structure is sometimes known as a "bundled tube". Kind of like grabbing a handful of straws and wrapping them with duct tape, schematically speaking. For this reason, a riven piece of wood is the strongest piece of wood. Rarely straight in nature, these freeform riven parts define a furniture design venacular all their own, seen in many versions familiar to us all. These days, most of us wouldn't go to the trouble of finding a piece of wood with our required arch already grown into it, so we must take a machined straight piece and cut the arch into it. This diminishes the strength significantly, so we have to use a larger piece to start with to maintain the strength factor.
We admire the slender nature of a shaker chair, marveling that these pieces have supported generations of sitters without structural failure. Once we leave the purest structural form of the shaker chair, our design decisions are mainly aesthetic, and are therefore subject to an aesthetic analysis. In many chair designs, our eye automatically allows for structural requirements, and can see when things are correctly proportioned for this, or slightly off. A leg that's too thick, a seat that's too squat, or perhaps an arch placement which seems superfluous.
If all chairs were shaker chairs, it would be a pretty boring landscape. There is certainly room in this big world of ours for the Dora chair, and God bless Jim Probst for building it and bringing it to our attention. I will soon follow his lead and put something of mine up for critique. I look forward to some honest feedback.