Design Critiques #5

[Tom LaRussa]

The Probst chair is interesting to me. I've thought long and hard about how to make affordable dining chairs somewhat in this style, and I can see that the designer has carefully designed the chair so that he can make it in a small shop for an affordable price.

Jamie,

"Affordable" is a relative term. He charges $800 per copy for that chair.

[Jamie Buxton]

Jamie,

"Affordable" is a relative term. He charges $800 per copy for that chair.

I don't know why everybody's intuitive price point for a dining chair is so low. If you were buying a living room chair, maybe you wouldn't feel $800 is exorbitant. The work involved in a dining chair is at least as challenging as a living room chair. Heck, considering the stresses on a dining chair, I'd say it is more difficult to build than a living room chair.

[Mark Singer]

Jamie is correct...the chairs I have made have been as difficult as any piece. It is hard to get it all correct and still make it comfortable. Many of the chairs that are built by crafstmen are rigid looking since they simplify the joints and use 90 degree angles. I think that is a design flaw and makes the chair appear as if were designed for ease of building and not for the human form and comfort. The angled tenons are actually easy between the front "frame" and the back. The key is to cheat the angle by 1/2 degree to insure the leg to apron on the outside is tight. The finer chairs from Dakota Jackson, Holy Hunt (Christian Liagre) , Thomas Moser, Baker Knapp and Tubbs are in the $1500 and up to $3000 range. Some are heavily stained woods that hide flaws in workmanship. A Maloof dining set...is quite expensive.... It is the old you get what you pay for.

If there is any interest I may build a few as I did the Bed and Bath Cabinet taking pictures and explaining the process. I always start with full scale drawings and a full scale mock up...that is very telling

[Jim Becker]

These are all nice chairs and they do the "chair part" well for me. I really like the work from Probst and Saltzer. Both are inviting to me and I'd enjoy having them in my home, although in different settings.

Probst's work just plain looks comfortable and has a nice crossover appeal between the formal and less-formal...a nice feature that lets it work in most home environments, IMHO. I like the contrast in the material selection and the thoughtful design of the back that (hopefully) fits the average person's back comfortably. (Something that could be customized for a given customer quite nicely)

Saltzer's chair appeals to me in its basic functionalty, but it's not without some nice style, too, with the curved slats and the nicely woven seat. Many chairs of this particular style are "very straight"...the maker here took the look and humanized it. I'd love to have these chairs in our bedrooms and other casual areas where a basic comfortable seat would come in handy.

Queen Anne never really floated my boat, but there are some nice things about this chair. It's footprint appears to be very stable, the seat and arms "envelope" the occupant and the wonderful use of figured material in the back exudes quality. The carving is very nice, too. I don't particularly like the structure between the nicely carved legs, but I do understand its function in making the chair strong and stable.

Aalto's contemporary chair is likely comfortable to sit in judging from the angles in the picture. The seat is broad, too. (One of the problems with a lot of seating is that it's not designed for our derieres' current state of "inflation"!) Although I couldn't find a place for this piece in my life, I would like to experience sitting in it. It's inviting in a strange way, despite the "colder" look that something so purely contemporary often is, especially in the wrong setting.

That's one other point...any of these chairs can look good if they are in an environment that suits them; actually that they suit!

[Tom LaRussa]

I don't know why everybody's intuitive price point for a dining chair is so low. If you were buying a living room chair, maybe you wouldn't feel $800 is exorbitant. The work involved in a dining chair is at least as challenging as a living room chair. Heck, considering the stresses on a dining chair, I'd say it is more difficult to build than a living room chair.

Jamie,

I don't think it's exhorbitant at all.

I just couldn't afford it.

[Corvin Alstot]

Its hard to believe that the Aalto chair is 70+ years old. It still appears as fresh
and timeless as the best modern designs.
Aalto always struck me as one of few modern master architects that was able to work
in a variety of different scales and materials without compromising the aesthetic
or function. His buildings, lighting, furniture and glassware all had a graceful
elegance, originality, and simplicity of design. Although a fan of early
FLW homes in Chicago - Frank Lloyd Wright furniture, in contrast, always
seemed a little heavy handed and often forced (see Price Tower office furniture).

Till I saw that chair, I had forgotten that my wife had found an early original
Aalto vase while antique shopping. The vase and chair both have the organic
curve as the dominant theme.

[John Stevens]

If there is any interest I may build a few as I did the Bed and Bath Cabinet taking pictures and explaining the process.

Thanks, that would be great.

[Corvin Alstot]

If there is any interest I may build a few as I did the Bed and Bath Cabinet taking pictures and explaining the process. I always start with full scale drawings and a full scale mock up...that is very telling

I second this idea. Chairs often look very easy to construct since their structure
is all exposed and there are usual only a limited number of pieces compared to a
cabinet. But the geometries and construction requirements required significantly
more planning. Seeing the construction process would be a tremendous help.

[Jim Dunn]

Darn Corvin, as I recall Norm built a chair in a half an hour, seen it on his show Seriously, I like the padded chair but would probably want to sit in the cained bottom chair for any extended period of time. I'll reserve judgment of the other 2 chairs as it would probably be negative.

Jim

[Jim probst]

I'm not sure if anyone will see this as it appears that I may be responding to a rather old thread. I was surprised to find my work being reviewed on your site, and I was pleased with the mostly positive reaction to it, and i really didn't mind the few criticisms that I saw. I'm always looking to improve my work. Just wanted to say that I appreciated the comments.
Jim Probst

[Jim Becker]

Welcome to SMC, Jim. I hope you'll visit as your time allows and provide folks with your insights...

[Mark Singer]

Jim,

Welcome,
You were chosen because your work is excellent! Of course members are free to say what they will....but just being in the Critique says a whole lot! Glad you joined SMC!

[Aaron Koehl]

I'm not sure if anyone will see this as it appears that I may be responding to a rather old thread. I was surprised to find my work being reviewed on your site, and I was pleased with the mostly positive reaction to it, and i really didn't mind the few criticisms that I saw. I'm always looking to improve my work. Just wanted to say that I appreciated the comments.
Jim Probst

Jim,

Welcome to SawmillCreek, and a big thanks to Mark once again for coming up with such a great idea for the Design Forums!

[Alan Turner]

Jim,
Welcome to SMC. Nice to have you aboard. In an early response to your chair someone said that it looked like all the joinery was at 90 degrees. Can you tell us if this is in fact the case? Were it so, it would mmike life easier. Were it not, I would not be surprised.

[Jim probst]

Alan,
No, the joinery is not all 90. The seat frame is splayed so that it is wider at the front of the seat. We have a single end tenoner that we use angled blocks with to hold the rails at the appropriate angle. I also found it interesting that someone thought those back panels looked relatively easy. I've considered doing them in a bent lamination and decided that all the resawing was about as time consuming as the method I am using which is to shape those panels from 6/4 stock. We use a router and cradle type jig. They are then veneered in a vacuum bag. They are horribly time consuming as we then rout a cove around the entire perimeter, both sides, and a tounge on both ends. I would love it if someone had some suggestions as to how to do the coving part as presently i have a whole wall full of jigs just for this one operation. My last comment relates to pricing. I just wish I could get $800 for my chairs on a regular basis. Unfortunately, being located in the hills of West Virginia, most of my business is wholesale, so most of my chairs go out of here at half that.
Jim Probst